5 ms·

But OpenRouter also costs 5.5%: https://openrouter.ai/pricing https://openrouter.ai/pricing

by rolandm 5mo ago

raincole 5mo ago
And? The point is that it's routed to the same model. Is the middleman's nationality that important, especially when you already accept the existence of a middleman?
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  If you're an EU business it's easier to do B2B with other EU businesses, just like it's easier for US businesses to do B2B with other US businesses. Not sure this is strange or out of the ordinary, I think it works the same in most places in the world today.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
    - embedding-shape 5mo ago
      Didn't knew I had to, but just for you: Nationally it's easy, identify the customer, issue invoice then send product, pretty much it (simplified obviously). Intra-EU; same thing but some additional VIES and VAT, mostly still easy. Non-EU business, now it's basically a full export, with all the requirements and declarations that comes with. Edit: Somehow, the comment got deleted although I replied to it? It originally implied I wouldn't be able to explain why it's easier, so I wrote the above to explain.
- vidarh 5mo ago
  So important that you'd switch to another middleman at no additional cost over the middleman you're already using? Probably for quite a few people.
- muzzy19 5mo ago
  > Is the middleman's nationality that important Yes, that's why I switched
- warpspin 5mo ago
  > Is the middleman's nationality that important No, it's not. You're absolutely right on that. It's just someone you don't know who actually runs it due to no proper imprint promoting their business over someone else who you also don't know who actually runs it. So you send all your valuable business data to unknown guy A instead of unknown guy B. Oh, and also, in both cases you couldn't even sign a proper data subprocessing agreement with both guys. You can't sign it with guy A, who doesn't care, and you also can't sign it with guy B who says he's from Europe, does not even bother to provide an address to prove that, and obviously does not understand the GDPR. Net souvereignty gain is zero by switching the middle man. In fact I'd say using such a "European" router service is actually worse than making business directly with, let's say, AWS, OpenAI or Anthropic where you'd at least know where you're buying from.

But OpenRouter also costs 5.5%: https://openrouter.ai/pricing https://openrouter.ai/pricing

by rolandm 5mo ago

But OpenRouter also costs 5.5%: https://openrouter.ai/pricing https://openrouter.ai/pricing

And? The point is that it's routed to the same model. Is the middleman's nationality that important, especially when you already accept the existence of a middleman?

embedding-shape 5mo ago
If you're an EU business it's easier to do B2B with other EU businesses, just like it's easier for US businesses to do B2B with other US businesses. Not sure this is strange or out of the ordinary, I think it works the same in most places in the world today.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    Didn't knew I had to, but just for you: Nationally it's easy, identify the customer, issue invoice then send product, pretty much it (simplified obviously). Intra-EU; same thing but some additional VIES and VAT, mostly still easy. Non-EU business, now it's basically a full export, with all the requirements and declarations that comes with. Edit: Somehow, the comment got deleted although I replied to it? It originally implied I wouldn't be able to explain why it's easier, so I wrote the above to explain.
vidarh 5mo ago
So important that you'd switch to another middleman at no additional cost over the middleman you're already using? Probably for quite a few people.
muzzy19 5mo ago
> Is the middleman's nationality that important Yes, that's why I switched
warpspin 5mo ago
> Is the middleman's nationality that important No, it's not. You're absolutely right on that. It's just someone you don't know who actually runs it due to no proper imprint promoting their business over someone else who you also don't know who actually runs it. So you send all your valuable business data to unknown guy A instead of unknown guy B. Oh, and also, in both cases you couldn't even sign a proper data subprocessing agreement with both guys. You can't sign it with guy A, who doesn't care, and you also can't sign it with guy B who says he's from Europe, does not even bother to provide an address to prove that, and obviously does not understand the GDPR. Net souvereignty gain is zero by switching the middle man. In fact I'd say using such a "European" router service is actually worse than making business directly with, let's say, AWS, OpenAI or Anthropic where you'd at least know where you're buying from.