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> I vehemently insist on the right of my fellow humans to smoke. You still have the right to bodily autonomy. What sellers don't have is the right to sell some
by kelseyfrog 6mo ago
> I vehemently insist on the right of my fellow humans to smoke.
You still have the right to bodily autonomy. What sellers don't have is the right to sell something that kills their clients and has obvious consequences en mass.
Just grow your own tobacco, cure it, process it, and roll your own cigarettes. Think of it like building your own Linux distro. You always had that ability, but didn't exercise it. Now you can.
- cucumber3732842 6mo agoActing like "well we're not banning it, we're just regulating it to the point that it's a non starter for 99.99% of people effectively acomplishing the same thing" isn't a ban is just calling people stupid with extra steps.
- justsomehnguy 6mo ago> Just grow your own tobacco, cure it, process it, and roll your own cigarettes. Just grow your own grapes, ferment them, distill them, and bottle your own whiskey. Just raise your own cattle, slaughter them, butcher them, and prepare your own steak. Just raise your own cows, milk them, pasteurize the milk, and produce your own cheese.
- vrganj 6mo agoYeah, or... don't. But don't expect other people to make everything easy for you. If you really want to, you can. Laziness is not an excuse.
- kelseyfrog 6mo agoThere's no natural right to be sold a product. It simply doesn't exist in reality, not part of the universe, and antithetical to natural law. I could demand you sell me your clothes. Just as absurd.
- card_zero 6mo agoDo you think property rights exist in reality? This quality of naturalness is tricky for me to get to grips with, but property rights are very basic, so they surely are part of the universe, right? The point of this question is that I own my clothes, but the government does not own the tobacco. Unless you think the government owns everything.
- kelseyfrog 6mo agoShow me the thermometer-equivalent that measures ownership. Ownership is a fabrication of human mind. If it was part of the universe we would be able to devise an instrument that mesures it. We've done a very good job of reifiying it and telling people that it's part of the natural order, but humans are very very good at constructing ontologies and forgetting they are the authors.
- mmarian 6mo agoJust let the taxpayer funded healthcare system deal with the burden. See how you can go the other way too if you want to be objective :)
- 6510 6mo agoNot sure what you mean. Here smokers pay much more taxes than non smokers and they require much less health care.
- justsomehnguy 6mo agoA country with 1M of an everyday smokers and a tax of $1 per pack would get $1M a day in the tobacco tax. There is a $365M oops 365 days in the year.
- mmarian 6mo agoJust Googled "cost of smokers in UK", and first result I got - total annual economic cost of £46B, for England alone https://ash.org.uk/media-centre/news/press-releases/latest-figures-show-cost-of-smoking-in-england-up-25-to-at-least-21-8-billion https://ash.org.uk/media-centre/news/press-releases/latest-f...
- justsomehnguy 6mo agoAt least you could had try to find the numbers not from a very opionated source. But anyway, $20B / 30M smokers give only $666/person. A $2 tax per pack covers it with a proficit.
- 6510 6mo agoCant, peasants aren't allowed to own land because it would be bad for the economy. But I like the idea, no meat for people born after 2009. Driving a car is also bad for the air. Cycling is much better.
- defrost 6mo agoDone all three, in complete honesty. To be fair, you've left out * Just build your own furnaces and make your own glass [check] * Build your own aircraft [check] * Fell trees for firewood and lumber [check] * Make your own spear and catch your own food [check] etc.
- sir0010010 6mo agoAn important caveat I would argue is that your fellow citizens' bodily autonomy gives them the right to prevent you from smoking if it would cause them to breath in the toxic, addictive and carcinogenic smoke you would be producing secondhand.
- card_zero 6mo agoCan you really end up as a passive smoking addict? If your usual source of secondhand smoke goes away for a while, I suppose you start awkwardly crashing the smoke breaks of strangers.
- ButlerianJihad 6mo agoIn the mid-1990s I attended a convention, and on the first morning, I grabbed a blueberry muffin as a snack. The coastal summertime weather was pleasant, without much wind. It was an hour-long wait or more. The line was outdoors and serpentine, so there were people on all sides. I was sitting down and eating the muffin, while a dude was standing in front of me, chatting and smoking a cigarette, and mostly holding the lit cigarette behind his back and in front of my face. I believe that “No Smoking” signs were posted around the convention center. There were no ashtrays anywhere. So as I finished eating, I had the wrapper in my hand: a thick oven-safe wax paper. So wrapped up my fingers, took aim, and snatched the cigarette away, cherry and all, snuffing it with the wrapper. The smoker guy was surprised and gave me a dirty look. He didn’t light another. I mentioned it later to my friends, who said that I deserved to get punched.
- belorn 6mo agoI know one who did that, and from that I suspect very few will ever do it. They are a natural pesticide and the natural variation you get can be very unpleasant. But at least many birds and other animals will definitively not touch it twice, as well most insects, and you can always use it as an pesticide if one decided that smoking it is not that great.