4 ms·

Maybe because the PCC is an authoritarian regime, with no respect for human rights (including using prisoners as living organ banks)?

dualvariable 6mo ago
> an authoritarian regime, with no respect for human rights I mean Alex Pretti was murdered because he was exercising his 2nd amendment rights and was getting beaten after having been disarmed and never displaying his firearm. Headlines are full of people who are dying without medical care because they're being incarcerated and shipped overseas due to legal technicalities.
- Saline9515 6mo ago
  Nice whataboutism, nothing has changed since the USSR, I see! The US also has its problems; this doesn't give the PCC a free pass. And those issues will likely go after the elections, something people in China haven't been able to do since the PCC took over the country. Anyway, shall I discuss the cultural genocide being committed on the Uighurs, or the Tibetans? Or, in a quite bizarre fashion, the descendants of the Mongols? [1] The goulags created during covid? And let's not talk about all the horrors of the Mao-era PCC. Etc, etc... [1]: https://www.economist.com/china/2023/12/20/why-chinas-rulers-fear-genghis-khan https://www.economist.com/china/2023/12/20/why-chinas-rulers...
  - dualvariable 6mo ago
    Over 200,000 civilians killed in the Iraq War, and we never found the WMDs. The US and China are pretty comparable in morality, just differently.
    - Saline9515 6mo ago
      You are aware that there are not only two countries in the world, right? And that China could have been something in between the current maoist regime and America? Like how Taiwan is, or Hong Kong was?
oa335 6mo ago
"no respect for human rights" have you spoken to anyone who grew up in China? every single chinese-born person i interacted with (all in the USA) seemed to approve of the government. these were students and professionals working in the west, so probably more educated and western-leaning than the average chinese. not once did i hear a chinese person i knew complaining of repression. not saying it doesnt happen, but i don't believe its a major concern for vast majority of chinese. im happy to be proven wrong though if others have conflicting data.
- Saline9515 6mo ago
  I have spoken with people who grew up in China. I have also spent time there. The education system is geared around brainwashing the children as early as possible, into thinking that the PCC is China and criticizing the PCC is criticizing their country. China is not a free country; there isn't free information or free speech. I'm sure that many North Koreans also think that their country is perfectly fine and Comrade Kim is the best leader they could have. The pig in his sow likely thinks that he lives his best life. Does it mean that it's true? Most people I discussed it with, including PhD students, had very little knowledge of their country's history in the 20th century, of what really happened during Mao's rule and after. Besides, China is a country socially deeply divided, and the PCC doesn't incentivize social empathy in its population - quite the inverse. So I'm not really surprised that rich kids in USA universities (so, the top of the cream of the regime) don't complain about the system and have never experienced hardship personally. Have you discussed it with people who were locked up in their buildings during Covid? Or farmers who were evicted to make place for promoters who bought their land on the cheap? Or maybe the Tibetan monks that immolated themselves to protest against the destruction of their culture? Lu Xiaobo, Nobel Peace prize, who spent the rest of his life in prison, for saying the wrong (non violent) things?
  - curio_Pol_curio 6mo ago
    Your abbreviation PCC suggests to me you're francophone. So you're probably not aware that everything you say about China has an equivalent in the US (deeply divided, lacking empathy etc) The political content of the respective education systems is different though. What one observes is, Chinese seem unwilling to criticize the government, but Americans seem to be unable to filter out misinformation. In the US, church or other "civic institutions" are conduits for divergent narratives; imagine the French Catholic church but much more fragmented or independent. It also depends on the time period. As China modernizes it has become less repressive to the average citizen-- though probably still as repressive to dissidents. Rural versus urban divide exists too, just like in the US. (Modern Vendee?) What were the religious background of the people you talked to? PCC is terrified of cults which spread alternative politics under the guise of spirituality. For historical reasons. You will notice that mainstream Islam is fine. In any event, when wars happen due to decisions taken by government, civilians take the bulk of the damage. It is not a noble thing to speak on the side of violent foreign policy, especially when its couched in the language of "liberation" or "security"

dualvariable 6mo ago

> an authoritarian regime, with no respect for human rights I mean Alex Pretti was murdered because he was exercising his 2nd amendment rights and was getting beaten after having been disarmed and never displaying his firearm. Headlines are full of people who are dying without medical care because they're being incarcerated and shipped overseas due to legal technicalities.

Saline9515 6mo ago
Nice whataboutism, nothing has changed since the USSR, I see! The US also has its problems; this doesn't give the PCC a free pass. And those issues will likely go after the elections, something people in China haven't been able to do since the PCC took over the country. Anyway, shall I discuss the cultural genocide being committed on the Uighurs, or the Tibetans? Or, in a quite bizarre fashion, the descendants of the Mongols? [1] The goulags created during covid? And let's not talk about all the horrors of the Mao-era PCC. Etc, etc... [1]: https://www.economist.com/china/2023/12/20/why-chinas-rulers-fear-genghis-khan https://www.economist.com/china/2023/12/20/why-chinas-rulers...
- dualvariable 6mo ago
  Over 200,000 civilians killed in the Iraq War, and we never found the WMDs. The US and China are pretty comparable in morality, just differently.
  - Saline9515 6mo ago
    You are aware that there are not only two countries in the world, right? And that China could have been something in between the current maoist regime and America? Like how Taiwan is, or Hong Kong was?

oa335 6mo ago

"no respect for human rights" have you spoken to anyone who grew up in China? every single chinese-born person i interacted with (all in the USA) seemed to approve of the government. these were students and professionals working in the west, so probably more educated and western-leaning than the average chinese. not once did i hear a chinese person i knew complaining of repression. not saying it doesnt happen, but i don't believe its a major concern for vast majority of chinese. im happy to be proven wrong though if others have conflicting data.

Saline9515 6mo ago
I have spoken with people who grew up in China. I have also spent time there. The education system is geared around brainwashing the children as early as possible, into thinking that the PCC is China and criticizing the PCC is criticizing their country. China is not a free country; there isn't free information or free speech. I'm sure that many North Koreans also think that their country is perfectly fine and Comrade Kim is the best leader they could have. The pig in his sow likely thinks that he lives his best life. Does it mean that it's true? Most people I discussed it with, including PhD students, had very little knowledge of their country's history in the 20th century, of what really happened during Mao's rule and after. Besides, China is a country socially deeply divided, and the PCC doesn't incentivize social empathy in its population - quite the inverse. So I'm not really surprised that rich kids in USA universities (so, the top of the cream of the regime) don't complain about the system and have never experienced hardship personally. Have you discussed it with people who were locked up in their buildings during Covid? Or farmers who were evicted to make place for promoters who bought their land on the cheap? Or maybe the Tibetan monks that immolated themselves to protest against the destruction of their culture? Lu Xiaobo, Nobel Peace prize, who spent the rest of his life in prison, for saying the wrong (non violent) things?
- curio_Pol_curio 6mo ago
  Your abbreviation PCC suggests to me you're francophone. So you're probably not aware that everything you say about China has an equivalent in the US (deeply divided, lacking empathy etc) The political content of the respective education systems is different though. What one observes is, Chinese seem unwilling to criticize the government, but Americans seem to be unable to filter out misinformation. In the US, church or other "civic institutions" are conduits for divergent narratives; imagine the French Catholic church but much more fragmented or independent. It also depends on the time period. As China modernizes it has become less repressive to the average citizen-- though probably still as repressive to dissidents. Rural versus urban divide exists too, just like in the US. (Modern Vendee?) What were the religious background of the people you talked to? PCC is terrified of cults which spread alternative politics under the guise of spirituality. For historical reasons. You will notice that mainstream Islam is fine. In any event, when wars happen due to decisions taken by government, civilians take the bulk of the damage. It is not a noble thing to speak on the side of violent foreign policy, especially when its couched in the language of "liberation" or "security"