5 ms·

In the nordics it is common to have ground source heat pumps (brine in closed circuit pipe or bore hole) that are run backwards in summer to cool the house whil

In the nordics it is common to have ground source heat pumps (brine in closed circuit pipe or bore hole) that are run backwards in summer to cool the house while actually assisting in storing heat back in the ground to extract in the winter. It’s a bit like regenerative breaking on electric cars.

jjtheblunt 6mo ago
There was a new in 1988 house in Champaign, Illinois, USA that used the same system, and i mention that because it was a normal modern house, and it's the only one i've heard of with that system. It seems so smart.
- maxerickson 6mo ago
  It's expensive. A relative has one in the northern Great Lakes, they wouldn't have installed it if their house had access to natural gas.
  - zrail 6mo ago
    Our house came with one and we upgraded the unit a few years ago. It's very efficient in terms of units of energy consumed, but in my area of the world gas is significantly cheaper than electricity so it ends up being expensive to run. That said, we will install solar at some point and then it'll be "free" HVAC.
- zdragnar 6mo ago
  There's a pretty significant upfront cost in getting them drilled, and many homes need the vertical drilling if they don't have sufficient yard space for a horizontal system. It gets harder if you have your own septic drain field too, as that will complete for yard space. The cost difference is pretty massive- 3-10x for a vertical system. If you live in a city or a suburb with tiny lots, that's your only option though. Nat gas and central AC are way cheaper.
  - IncreasePosts 6mo ago
    Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient and just plain better these days too. It used to be that if the air was below 40F you couldn't heat your house with a heat pump. Now, you can heat your house even when it's -10F
    - SR2Z 6mo ago
      If you can tolerate the price, I am _confident_ that you will pretty much always have better results using the Earth as your thermal exhaust, because you don't have to dig very far to find a large region that's pretty much always at 50 F.
    - wood_spirit 6mo ago
      The downvotes are unfair. The price of things - heat pumps and alternatives - in different regions - even different regions within the US - varies by what people are prepared to pay not what they cost to produce. The nordics have traditionally had cheap heat pumps whereas piped gas is only in the biggest cities and I’ve never seen bottled gas in the countryside. The competitor used to be cheap electricity and wood. Ground source heat pumps for rural install have been priced to compete with wood. In the US the market could be shaped by regulation and taxation etc. It’s the choice of the US to have cheap fossil fuels and not embrace tech instead.
    - hvb2 6mo ago
      > Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient Citation needed? Efficient how? I'm sure a heat pump designed for a narrow range of input temperatures AND working with water which can transport a lot more heat should easily be more efficient. https://www.energysage.com/heat-pumps/compare-air-source-geothermal-heat-pumps/ https://www.energysage.com/heat-pumps/compare-air-source-geo... Seems to disagree
      - sgerenser 6mo ago
        I assuming he means insanely more efficient than they used to be, not more efficient than ground-source (awkward wording though). I suppose they can also be described as more efficient in installation time, cost and equipment than ground source, but clearly not in operating efficiency.
ninalanyon 6mo ago
No it's not. It exists but it's certainly not common for individual dwelling to use ground source heat pumps, at least in Norway. It is more common in Sweden[1] but still far less common than air source and over 90% of heat pump installations in Norway are air source[2]. The only ground source installations I can think of in Norway serve large office buildings and similar. The largest heat pump installation I know of in Norway is actually a third kind: water source[3]. It takes heat from the Drammen river to provide heat for a district heating system and for keeping the town centre clear of ice in the winter as well as supplying the new hospital with heat. I imagine that the rest of the Nordic region is similar. See: [1] http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC137131/JRC137131_026.pdf http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JR... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213138822008773 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221313882... [3] https://energiteknikk.net/2023/11/drammen-fjernvarme-storst-pa-sjovarme/ https://energiteknikk.net/2023/11/drammen-fjernvarme-storst-...
- deliciousturkey 6mo ago
  In Finland around 50% of new single-family homes use ground source heat pumps. So it's definitely popular here.
- emil-lp 6mo ago
  3 schools in my neighborhood (barneskole, ungdomsskole & videregående) all use ground source heat pumps.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- sumea 6mo ago
  If by Nordics you mean Norway, Sweden and Finland, then the most correct way to say would be that ground source heat pumps for redidential heating are (very) common in Sweden and Finland, especially in newer and larger buildings. Norway is somewhat different in energy and climate perspective than its eastern neighbours. The biggest reason to not install ground source heat pump is high installation cost. This means that it makes more sense for larger residential buildings. Also If you have district heating available then this might be more economical in the long run.

jjtheblunt 6mo ago

There was a new in 1988 house in Champaign, Illinois, USA that used the same system, and i mention that because it was a normal modern house, and it's the only one i've heard of with that system. It seems so smart.

maxerickson 6mo ago
It's expensive. A relative has one in the northern Great Lakes, they wouldn't have installed it if their house had access to natural gas.
- zrail 6mo ago
  Our house came with one and we upgraded the unit a few years ago. It's very efficient in terms of units of energy consumed, but in my area of the world gas is significantly cheaper than electricity so it ends up being expensive to run. That said, we will install solar at some point and then it'll be "free" HVAC.
zdragnar 6mo ago
There's a pretty significant upfront cost in getting them drilled, and many homes need the vertical drilling if they don't have sufficient yard space for a horizontal system. It gets harder if you have your own septic drain field too, as that will complete for yard space. The cost difference is pretty massive- 3-10x for a vertical system. If you live in a city or a suburb with tiny lots, that's your only option though. Nat gas and central AC are way cheaper.
- IncreasePosts 6mo ago
  Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient and just plain better these days too. It used to be that if the air was below 40F you couldn't heat your house with a heat pump. Now, you can heat your house even when it's -10F
  - SR2Z 6mo ago
    If you can tolerate the price, I am _confident_ that you will pretty much always have better results using the Earth as your thermal exhaust, because you don't have to dig very far to find a large region that's pretty much always at 50 F.
  - wood_spirit 6mo ago
    The downvotes are unfair. The price of things - heat pumps and alternatives - in different regions - even different regions within the US - varies by what people are prepared to pay not what they cost to produce. The nordics have traditionally had cheap heat pumps whereas piped gas is only in the biggest cities and I’ve never seen bottled gas in the countryside. The competitor used to be cheap electricity and wood. Ground source heat pumps for rural install have been priced to compete with wood. In the US the market could be shaped by regulation and taxation etc. It’s the choice of the US to have cheap fossil fuels and not embrace tech instead.
  - hvb2 6mo ago
    > Air source heat pumps are insanely more efficient Citation needed? Efficient how? I'm sure a heat pump designed for a narrow range of input temperatures AND working with water which can transport a lot more heat should easily be more efficient. https://www.energysage.com/heat-pumps/compare-air-source-geothermal-heat-pumps/ https://www.energysage.com/heat-pumps/compare-air-source-geo... Seems to disagree
    - sgerenser 6mo ago
      I assuming he means insanely more efficient than they used to be, not more efficient than ground-source (awkward wording though). I suppose they can also be described as more efficient in installation time, cost and equipment than ground source, but clearly not in operating efficiency.

ninalanyon 6mo ago

No it's not. It exists but it's certainly not common for individual dwelling to use ground source heat pumps, at least in Norway. It is more common in Sweden[1] but still far less common than air source and over 90% of heat pump installations in Norway are air source[2]. The only ground source installations I can think of in Norway serve large office buildings and similar. The largest heat pump installation I know of in Norway is actually a third kind: water source[3]. It takes heat from the Drammen river to provide heat for a district heating system and for keeping the town centre clear of ice in the winter as well as supplying the new hospital with heat. I imagine that the rest of the Nordic region is similar. See: [1] http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JRC137131/JRC137131_026.pdf http://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/JR... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213138822008773 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221313882... [3] https://energiteknikk.net/2023/11/drammen-fjernvarme-storst-pa-sjovarme/ https://energiteknikk.net/2023/11/drammen-fjernvarme-storst-...

deliciousturkey 6mo ago
In Finland around 50% of new single-family homes use ground source heat pumps. So it's definitely popular here.
emil-lp 6mo ago
3 schools in my neighborhood (barneskole, ungdomsskole & videregående) all use ground source heat pumps.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
sumea 6mo ago
If by Nordics you mean Norway, Sweden and Finland, then the most correct way to say would be that ground source heat pumps for redidential heating are (very) common in Sweden and Finland, especially in newer and larger buildings. Norway is somewhat different in energy and climate perspective than its eastern neighbours. The biggest reason to not install ground source heat pump is high installation cost. This means that it makes more sense for larger residential buildings. Also If you have district heating available then this might be more economical in the long run.