4 ms·

But that doesn't matter. If I'm looking at the framework or the Thinkpad or anything else I've said "no thanks" to Apple laptops This is my starting point. I'

But that doesn't matter. If I'm looking at the framework or the Thinkpad or anything else I've said "no thanks" to Apple laptops This is my starting point. I've already turned the Mac down. It's like turning down a very specific slice of cake and then being offered the same kind of cake from different vendors when really you just want a salad

dijit 6mo ago
Why? If for software: thats the point. If for hardware (because its not serviceable): then thats what the framework is fixing. It is no secret that Apple hardware is superior right now. If you don’t like that as a fact then convince Dell/HP/Lenovo to do better. It is a valid north star for Framework in the current ecosystem to differentiate but chase the best in market. — Also, your comments are devoid of things that you actually feel like you’re missing. I think you’re just being snide because you've taken a position as “anything related to Apple is bad” which undermines a lot of genuine engineering they do.
- kristopolous 6mo ago
  It's not that, it's the follower product insistence. I've got a strong universal distaste for it. Let's take an industry where there isn't any: showers. You go to a hotel or an Airbnb and you can't figure out how to turn on the shower. They're all so different This is actually great. People are being very innovative and creative. That's human flourishing and ingenuity. You go to the electronics store and all the laptops look the same with different logos on the back. It's suffocating I'm looking for creative diversity. It's a different set of values
  - bigyabai 6mo ago
    Creative diversity doesn't pay bills. If you're going to sell one or two laptop designs, it damn well better be what the majority of people expect from a laptop. While you're certainly within your right to buy different types of hardware, I don't think you're right to criticize convergent design. There already are wildly different laptop alternatives like the iPad, which is mainly held back by it's refusal to accept basic laptop features that Mac and PC users take for granted.
  - dijit 6mo ago
    Sure, and those exist. MNT Reform for example; https://mntre.com/ https://mntre.com/ The laptops I mentioned are also very different from Macbooks, but they are increasingly poor quality. I maintain that its a valid choice, maybe once they have a truly solid product they can be creative. But theres no point being “super creative” and having no product, especially not a product people dislike.
rafabulsing 6mo ago
Most people who have the option of buying a Mac and still go with Windows/Linux machines do so because of the software. The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great, and a stronger overall package than most non-Mac options. So making Mac-like hardware with Windows/Linux software is very much a great value proposition to many people.
- akho 6mo ago
  > The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great There is some agreement in terms of the M chips. There is no universl agreement re keyboard layout, screen technology and surfacing, trackpoints, touchscreens, 2-in-1 form factors, port selection, or aluminium unibodies.

dijit 6mo ago

Why? If for software: thats the point. If for hardware (because its not serviceable): then thats what the framework is fixing. It is no secret that Apple hardware is superior right now. If you don’t like that as a fact then convince Dell/HP/Lenovo to do better. It is a valid north star for Framework in the current ecosystem to differentiate but chase the best in market. — Also, your comments are devoid of things that you actually feel like you’re missing. I think you’re just being snide because you've taken a position as “anything related to Apple is bad” which undermines a lot of genuine engineering they do.

kristopolous 6mo ago
It's not that, it's the follower product insistence. I've got a strong universal distaste for it. Let's take an industry where there isn't any: showers. You go to a hotel or an Airbnb and you can't figure out how to turn on the shower. They're all so different This is actually great. People are being very innovative and creative. That's human flourishing and ingenuity. You go to the electronics store and all the laptops look the same with different logos on the back. It's suffocating I'm looking for creative diversity. It's a different set of values
- bigyabai 6mo ago
  Creative diversity doesn't pay bills. If you're going to sell one or two laptop designs, it damn well better be what the majority of people expect from a laptop. While you're certainly within your right to buy different types of hardware, I don't think you're right to criticize convergent design. There already are wildly different laptop alternatives like the iPad, which is mainly held back by it's refusal to accept basic laptop features that Mac and PC users take for granted.
- dijit 6mo ago
  Sure, and those exist. MNT Reform for example; https://mntre.com/ https://mntre.com/ The laptops I mentioned are also very different from Macbooks, but they are increasingly poor quality. I maintain that its a valid choice, maybe once they have a truly solid product they can be creative. But theres no point being “super creative” and having no product, especially not a product people dislike.

rafabulsing 6mo ago

Most people who have the option of buying a Mac and still go with Windows/Linux machines do so because of the software. The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great, and a stronger overall package than most non-Mac options. So making Mac-like hardware with Windows/Linux software is very much a great value proposition to many people.

akho 6mo ago
> The hardware is almost universally agreed to be great There is some agreement in terms of the M chips. There is no universl agreement re keyboard layout, screen technology and surfacing, trackpoints, touchscreens, 2-in-1 form factors, port selection, or aluminium unibodies.