3 ms·

The lack of clarity is in keeping with the USB C connector itself, which may supply or accept power at various rates or not at all, may be fast or slow, may pro

The lack of clarity is in keeping with the USB C connector itself, which may supply or accept power at various rates or not at all, may be fast or slow, may provide or accept video or not, and may even provide an interpretation of PCI Express but probably doesn't. It gets even worse. I now have two cheap Chinese gadgets (a checki printer and a tire inflater) that have USB-C ports for charging, but will only charge with the wire that came with the gadget. The other end of which is an old-style USB plug. It seems that USB-C sockets are cheap enough parts to use them for everything, even if the manufacturer isn't going to put any actual USB circuitry behind them. Edit: Three. I forgot about my wife's illuminated makeup mirror.

anamexis 6mo ago
I keep a few of these around to deal with this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/6323 https://www.adafruit.com/product/6323 Very annoying though! The devices are just missing a couple resistors which is probably less than a cent on the BOM.
- mh- 6mo ago
  Wow, thanks for sharing this. Like the parent commenter, I have an increasing number of cheap devices like this. I wonder if anyone sells an "enclosed" version of this product. This won't survive 5 minutes in my house, haha. A quick google I found one but they're $17 each (!) and it's from a site I've never heard of and can't vouch for, so not bothering to link it here. I'm really surprised there aren't a number of these all over Amazon. Or if there are, they're using different keywords to describe them, so I can't find them.
  - anamexis 6mo ago
    Adafruit sells enclosures for them, too.
  - ssl-3 6mo ago
    On AliExpress I found some that were already packaged into neat little professional-looking adapter-sized widgets for about $2.50 each. I'd link them here, but I have a US perspective on things and it wasn't clear to me how this listing would be delivered. And delivery method is important to me, here. If with AliExpress Choice shipping, then that'd be fine: They'd show up on a doorstep in Anytown, USA for a few dollars each. But if they'd be delivered using Approximately Any Other Method, then: Surprise! Your widget valued at less than $2.50 now costs you $80 to receive! I don't want to encourage anyone to be surprised like that. (I have no doubt that an enterprising person could negotiate a very good price on 1,000 of these widgets and sell them on Amazon if they were motivated to do so.)
ziml77 6mo ago
Ah that's a fun misuse of USB ports. The companies will often even dodge issues with the USB-IF by labeling the ports as Type C and letting the customer's mind fill in the word USB. I wish these devices would just use barrel jacks, labeled with the voltage and polarity. But these manufacturers know that the USB-C port weighs into buying decisions (and they know that most people have zero clue about the difference between a physical port and the electrical/protocol specs).
- SoftTalker 6mo ago
  I hate barrel jacks, it seems that every single time I encounter one it's different from any adaptor I have. Size, voltage, and polarity can all differ. People got sick of having 10 differnet power adatpters to charge stuff. Hence the demand for "single connector" which seems to have converged on the USB-C form factor.
  - ziml77 6mo ago
    Right, but if it's not actually USB-C, at best you're looking at the device not working when plugged into a proper USB-C power supply. At worst you're facing fried electronics.
    - SoftTalker 6mo ago
      Agreed that would be like wiring a standard North American household wall outlet with 240VAC. Technically possible, but will probably fry anything not expecting it.
      - ssl-3 6mo ago
        I came across a group of racks in the IT room in a (US) factory once that had 208v on their standard NEMA 5-15R sockets. Their global-market IT stuff didn't care at all. But some of the US-market audio stuff I was integrating came with old-school linear power supplies, and those items cared a great deal.
the__alchemist 6mo ago
Note: If it just needs 5V power (Like many microcontroller-focused devices), USB C is convenient, because chargers and cables are ubiquitous. And they all (WIth exceptions like the one you mentioned) support 5V DC power. Bonus: YOu can enable USB 2.0 data transfer as well for firmware updates, computer interfaces etc. So: Cheap/ubiquitous part, everyone has cables + AC adapters to their local plug: I think it's a great default power connector.
nfriedly 6mo ago
I repaired device like that a while back - it only took two half-cent resistors and a half-assed soldering job to make it compatible with standard USB-C cables and chargers: https://www.nfriedly.com/techblog/2021-10-10-v90-usb-c/ https://www.nfriedly.com/techblog/2021-10-10-v90-usb-c/
ssl-3 6mo ago
Yeah, they got cheap. They either got cheap with the BOM, or they got cheap with the QC and never tested it with USB C power sources, or they got cheap with the spec and it's working as-designed. It just takes a couple of insignificant resistors and a USB C socket that brings out CC1 and CC2 to pads on the board to do it right. I wrote about how that works in a sister comment if you want to read more. But those devices will charge/work just fine with any bog-standard USB A to USB C cable, alongside any decent power brick with USB A outputs. It doesn't have to be the exact cables they came with. It's annoying in the "you cheap bastards" sort of way, but regular A to C cables will work. (If it's really important to you, then it can be possible to hack in a couple of 5.1k resistors inside the cheap-bastard devices and make them work with regular USB C power bricks and regular USB C to C cables. The resistors will tell the source to provide 5v at up to 3A. All compliant USB C cables are required to safely pass 3A. The mod can range from very easy, to somewhat problematic, to "fuck this, I quit". In reality, there might already be pads on the board to connect CC1 and CC2 to ground; just solder in the resistors. Or, the pins are probably brought out at the connector itself, so it can be bodged with some extra wire. But reality is a cruel mistress and not all available PCB-mounted USB C connectors expose CC1 and CC2 at all, although in a sane and pure world absolutely all of them should.) [tl;dr, just keep an A to C cable with the devices, always have USB A where they get used, and forget about it. The next round of cheap stuff will be better, worse, or the same, and that's a future problem.]

anamexis 6mo ago

I keep a few of these around to deal with this: https://www.adafruit.com/product/6323 https://www.adafruit.com/product/6323 Very annoying though! The devices are just missing a couple resistors which is probably less than a cent on the BOM.

mh- 6mo ago
Wow, thanks for sharing this. Like the parent commenter, I have an increasing number of cheap devices like this. I wonder if anyone sells an "enclosed" version of this product. This won't survive 5 minutes in my house, haha. A quick google I found one but they're $17 each (!) and it's from a site I've never heard of and can't vouch for, so not bothering to link it here. I'm really surprised there aren't a number of these all over Amazon. Or if there are, they're using different keywords to describe them, so I can't find them.
- anamexis 6mo ago
  Adafruit sells enclosures for them, too.
- ssl-3 6mo ago
  On AliExpress I found some that were already packaged into neat little professional-looking adapter-sized widgets for about $2.50 each. I'd link them here, but I have a US perspective on things and it wasn't clear to me how this listing would be delivered. And delivery method is important to me, here. If with AliExpress Choice shipping, then that'd be fine: They'd show up on a doorstep in Anytown, USA for a few dollars each. But if they'd be delivered using Approximately Any Other Method, then: Surprise! Your widget valued at less than $2.50 now costs you $80 to receive! I don't want to encourage anyone to be surprised like that. (I have no doubt that an enterprising person could negotiate a very good price on 1,000 of these widgets and sell them on Amazon if they were motivated to do so.)

ziml77 6mo ago

Ah that's a fun misuse of USB ports. The companies will often even dodge issues with the USB-IF by labeling the ports as Type C and letting the customer's mind fill in the word USB. I wish these devices would just use barrel jacks, labeled with the voltage and polarity. But these manufacturers know that the USB-C port weighs into buying decisions (and they know that most people have zero clue about the difference between a physical port and the electrical/protocol specs).

SoftTalker 6mo ago
I hate barrel jacks, it seems that every single time I encounter one it's different from any adaptor I have. Size, voltage, and polarity can all differ. People got sick of having 10 differnet power adatpters to charge stuff. Hence the demand for "single connector" which seems to have converged on the USB-C form factor.
- ziml77 6mo ago
  Right, but if it's not actually USB-C, at best you're looking at the device not working when plugged into a proper USB-C power supply. At worst you're facing fried electronics.
  - SoftTalker 6mo ago
    Agreed that would be like wiring a standard North American household wall outlet with 240VAC. Technically possible, but will probably fry anything not expecting it.
    - ssl-3 6mo ago
      I came across a group of racks in the IT room in a (US) factory once that had 208v on their standard NEMA 5-15R sockets. Their global-market IT stuff didn't care at all. But some of the US-market audio stuff I was integrating came with old-school linear power supplies, and those items cared a great deal.

the__alchemist 6mo ago

Note: If it just needs 5V power (Like many microcontroller-focused devices), USB C is convenient, because chargers and cables are ubiquitous. And they all (WIth exceptions like the one you mentioned) support 5V DC power. Bonus: YOu can enable USB 2.0 data transfer as well for firmware updates, computer interfaces etc. So: Cheap/ubiquitous part, everyone has cables + AC adapters to their local plug: I think it's a great default power connector.

nfriedly 6mo ago

I repaired device like that a while back - it only took two half-cent resistors and a half-assed soldering job to make it compatible with standard USB-C cables and chargers: https://www.nfriedly.com/techblog/2021-10-10-v90-usb-c/ https://www.nfriedly.com/techblog/2021-10-10-v90-usb-c/

ssl-3 6mo ago

Yeah, they got cheap. They either got cheap with the BOM, or they got cheap with the QC and never tested it with USB C power sources, or they got cheap with the spec and it's working as-designed. It just takes a couple of insignificant resistors and a USB C socket that brings out CC1 and CC2 to pads on the board to do it right. I wrote about how that works in a sister comment if you want to read more. But those devices will charge/work just fine with any bog-standard USB A to USB C cable, alongside any decent power brick with USB A outputs. It doesn't have to be the exact cables they came with. It's annoying in the "you cheap bastards" sort of way, but regular A to C cables will work. (If it's really important to you, then it can be possible to hack in a couple of 5.1k resistors inside the cheap-bastard devices and make them work with regular USB C power bricks and regular USB C to C cables. The resistors will tell the source to provide 5v at up to 3A. All compliant USB C cables are required to safely pass 3A. The mod can range from very easy, to somewhat problematic, to "fuck this, I quit". In reality, there might already be pads on the board to connect CC1 and CC2 to ground; just solder in the resistors. Or, the pins are probably brought out at the connector itself, so it can be bodged with some extra wire. But reality is a cruel mistress and not all available PCB-mounted USB C connectors expose CC1 and CC2 at all, although in a sane and pure world absolutely all of them should.) [tl;dr, just keep an A to C cable with the devices, always have USB A where they get used, and forget about it. The next round of cheap stuff will be better, worse, or the same, and that's a future problem.]