4 ms·

if it's bad for society then regulate the Social Media companies rather than shifting the burden on the citizenry through ID laws and backdooring increased surv

if it's bad for society then regulate the Social Media companies rather than shifting the burden on the citizenry through ID laws and backdooring increased surveillance under the guise of "muh chillren!"

barbazoo 6mo ago
Genuine question, how is it different than tobacco, driving, alcohol, all the things we gate by age for what seem to be valid reasons?
- dfxm12 6mo ago
  First, tobacco and alcohol companies absolutely are regulated. Second, traditionally the age gate for cigarettes and booze is for the seller to look at your ID just to verify your age, then forget you. The process was not to establish your identity and follow you around forever, tracking and selling your behavioral data, which is a way these Internet based age gates have been implemented, and the logical conclusion of these age gates given how the Internet works. Third, even if you are coming from the angle that the age verification process for cigarettes and alcohol are bad, it's easier to prevent a bad system from being codified into law than to repeal it after the fact. Being licensed to drive is a bit of a different situation as you do have to demonstrate some kind of proficiency, but even still, the government practically has to keep track of this in some way and presumably, that way doesn't involve selling your personal info (if it did, there likely would be the same backlash).
  - barbazoo 6mo ago
    > traditionally the age gate for cigarettes and booze is for the seller to look at your ID just to verify your age, then forget you. The process was not to establish your identity and follow you around forever, tracking and selling your behavioral data, which is a way these Internet based age gates have been implemented I think that's a bit of a strawman, there exist solutions to this problem that decouple who reads the ID from the party that needs information about it, e.g. being above a certain age. Maybe it matters here how it's implemented, can that be regulated?
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    Nowadays grocery stores do scan the ID, so maybe there is some tracking
    - MarsIronPI 6mo ago
      Where? If it happened in my country I'd absolutely raise a fuss.
      - traderj0e 6mo ago
        US, in a California Safeway store for example
        MarsIronPI 6mo ago
        Hm, well California does a lot of weird things that I don't really have a say in. When it gets to my state I'll agitate against it.
    - chickensong 6mo ago
      You can refuse the scan. It's just a surveillance grab, like the TSA photo. Unfortunately most people just go along with it.
      - traderj0e 6mo ago
        Are they obligated to still sell the liquor if you refuse the scan? The cashier specifically told me last time they're required to scan it if I want to buy that.
        chickensong 6mo ago
        Yes, there's no law requiring it. It's just corporate BS. They want to scan your license, that's it. Some cashiers will push back because that's what they've been told to do, but if you ask for a manager they'll admit it's not a requirement.
- everdrive 6mo ago
  Those things you listed cannot ever impact 1st amendment protections. I hate social media, but this is a concern here.
- b00ty4breakfast 6mo ago
  One of those is a function of government and the other two are enriched by the product being purchased rather than being a ploy to gather user PII to be sold to the highest bidder. And neither of those 3 knows much about me other than I drive, purchase tobacco or alcoholic beverages. They don't know who my prom date was or who I worked for in 2012 or what movie I'm currently watching or where I eat lunch every day or what my religious beliefs are or where my political allegiances lie.
traderj0e 6mo ago
The ID laws only apply to social media though. You don't need to give your ID if you don't use those websites. Of course it's also possible that this is just a trojan for other sites asking for ID, but hopefully people see the difference enough that extending this law there wouldn't be popular.

barbazoo 6mo ago

Genuine question, how is it different than tobacco, driving, alcohol, all the things we gate by age for what seem to be valid reasons?

dfxm12 6mo ago
First, tobacco and alcohol companies absolutely are regulated. Second, traditionally the age gate for cigarettes and booze is for the seller to look at your ID just to verify your age, then forget you. The process was not to establish your identity and follow you around forever, tracking and selling your behavioral data, which is a way these Internet based age gates have been implemented, and the logical conclusion of these age gates given how the Internet works. Third, even if you are coming from the angle that the age verification process for cigarettes and alcohol are bad, it's easier to prevent a bad system from being codified into law than to repeal it after the fact. Being licensed to drive is a bit of a different situation as you do have to demonstrate some kind of proficiency, but even still, the government practically has to keep track of this in some way and presumably, that way doesn't involve selling your personal info (if it did, there likely would be the same backlash).
- barbazoo 6mo ago
  > traditionally the age gate for cigarettes and booze is for the seller to look at your ID just to verify your age, then forget you. The process was not to establish your identity and follow you around forever, tracking and selling your behavioral data, which is a way these Internet based age gates have been implemented I think that's a bit of a strawman, there exist solutions to this problem that decouple who reads the ID from the party that needs information about it, e.g. being above a certain age. Maybe it matters here how it's implemented, can that be regulated?
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  Nowadays grocery stores do scan the ID, so maybe there is some tracking
  - MarsIronPI 6mo ago
    Where? If it happened in my country I'd absolutely raise a fuss.
    - traderj0e 6mo ago
      US, in a California Safeway store for example
      - MarsIronPI 6mo ago
        Hm, well California does a lot of weird things that I don't really have a say in. When it gets to my state I'll agitate against it.
  - chickensong 6mo ago
    You can refuse the scan. It's just a surveillance grab, like the TSA photo. Unfortunately most people just go along with it.
    - traderj0e 6mo ago
      Are they obligated to still sell the liquor if you refuse the scan? The cashier specifically told me last time they're required to scan it if I want to buy that.
      - chickensong 6mo ago
        Yes, there's no law requiring it. It's just corporate BS. They want to scan your license, that's it. Some cashiers will push back because that's what they've been told to do, but if you ask for a manager they'll admit it's not a requirement.
everdrive 6mo ago
Those things you listed cannot ever impact 1st amendment protections. I hate social media, but this is a concern here.
b00ty4breakfast 6mo ago
One of those is a function of government and the other two are enriched by the product being purchased rather than being a ploy to gather user PII to be sold to the highest bidder. And neither of those 3 knows much about me other than I drive, purchase tobacco or alcoholic beverages. They don't know who my prom date was or who I worked for in 2012 or what movie I'm currently watching or where I eat lunch every day or what my religious beliefs are or where my political allegiances lie.

traderj0e 6mo ago

The ID laws only apply to social media though. You don't need to give your ID if you don't use those websites. Of course it's also possible that this is just a trojan for other sites asking for ID, but hopefully people see the difference enough that extending this law there wouldn't be popular.