4 ms·

I wonder what you consider serious work then, because as a developer I think Visual Studio is the most "serious" developer environment there is, and I'd take it

I wonder what you consider serious work then, because as a developer I think Visual Studio is the most "serious" developer environment there is, and I'd take it over any linux or Mac based setup.

pixel_popping 6mo ago
Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't, because I just wouldn't even trust my environment at first. And for Visual Studio, I would solely run it in a firewalled VM. MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints which makes it insecure by default. There is also serious privacy concerns, basic one would be that telemetry sends all HWID of devices by default, so if you share a USB stick with a friend, you two are automatically correlated in MS database, not really my cup of tea. Not a big fan of an OS asking for an ID indirectly (via mandatory phone number) as well, mandatory MS account at install time (except if you tamper with the ISO, yeah sure)
- joe_mamba 6mo ago
  >Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't Most banks on the planet manage trillions on Windows, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by dying on this hill. Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't make you knowledgeable or right about that. >MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints. I wonder how all those companies, banks and governments manage to keep MS workers out of their work data. Any MS workers here that can answer what are you guys doing with all that customer data you look at all day instead of coding?
  - pixel_popping 6mo ago
    I doubt workers stealing data (which is more frequent than you might think) will just openly post about it... Do you really believe it's normal that banks are on Windows? Do you want governments, military and such to be on Windows, really? It's not a popularity contest, we know that most corpos do terrible choice about IT stuff (at least back then and now they are doomed). It breach basic every security principles, we should be relying on cryptography and not human trust? Would you let your ISP inject a CA in your OS and just rely on the trust of their employees to not look at your traffic? you're building your security model on the assumption that a private corporation's employees won't abuse access they structurally have, you rely on faith which imo is plain wrong. But even, the privacy factor has not been addressed, you are alright with MS correlating your entire life, many wouldn't accept that.
    - joe_mamba 6mo ago
      >I doubt workers stealing data (which is more frequent than you might think) Can you post a source for this? I'm sure every newspaper on the planet would love to publish headlines reading "MS workers are stealing your data", but that would require some actual proof, not made up FUD. >Do you really believe it's normal that banks are on Windows? It doesn't matter what I believe, what matters are the facts and reality on the street which is what I'm arguing. You are free to believe whatever you want, that doesn't make you right.
      - pixel_popping 6mo ago
        I'm not dying on a hill. From a security standpoint, every "trust" step is a security assumption that you cannot verify (especially on a Samsung phone), I'm just not willing to bet my threat model on the "goodwill" of a corporation whose business model is built on data aggregation, there is no proofs needed (MS has had a ton of breaches the last decade btw), but you do you. Let me ask you something and make an hypothetical and you must reply in good faith, this is because we don't agree on fundamental points on security: If you were a wanted criminal that still needs to work online somehow to make money, would you feel safe using Windows? I think we can agree that privacy and security are heavily intertwined. If your honest answer is no,then that alone tells you something about the OS trust model. And if your answer is "yes", then i'd genuinely like to hear why, because I can't think of a single compelling reason.
        joe_mamba 6mo ago
        You first have to answer my challenges to your original statements, on how banks can use Windows without losing money to hackers, and how MS employees access your data, as per your claims. I first want to see sources hat back up your claims. Otherwise how can we know you're arguing in good faith and not stringing us along with more FUD and tinfoil conspiracies.
    - gambiting 6mo ago
      >>I doubt workers stealing data (which is more frequent than you might think) will just openly post about it. Can you explain what mechanism is there for Microsoft workers to steal data off my Windows PC that doesn't upload anything to OneDrive? Like I'm genuienly curious - how do they do it?

I wonder what you consider serious work then, because as a developer I think Visual Studio is the most "serious" developer environment there is, and I'd take it over any linux or Mac based setup.

pixel_popping 6mo ago

Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't, because I just wouldn't even trust my environment at first. And for Visual Studio, I would solely run it in a firewalled VM. MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints which makes it insecure by default. There is also serious privacy concerns, basic one would be that telemetry sends all HWID of devices by default, so if you share a USB stick with a friend, you two are automatically correlated in MS database, not really my cup of tea. Not a big fan of an OS asking for an ID indirectly (via mandatory phone number) as well, mandatory MS account at install time (except if you tamper with the ISO, yeah sure)

joe_mamba 6mo ago
>Think about it like this: Would you manage a fortune in crypto on Windows? I wouldn't Most banks on the planet manage trillions on Windows, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove by dying on this hill. Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't make you knowledgeable or right about that. >MS employees have access to a lot of your work/data/fingerprints. I wonder how all those companies, banks and governments manage to keep MS workers out of their work data. Any MS workers here that can answer what are you guys doing with all that customer data you look at all day instead of coding?
- pixel_popping 6mo ago
  I doubt workers stealing data (which is more frequent than you might think) will just openly post about it... Do you really believe it's normal that banks are on Windows? Do you want governments, military and such to be on Windows, really? It's not a popularity contest, we know that most corpos do terrible choice about IT stuff (at least back then and now they are doomed). It breach basic every security principles, we should be relying on cryptography and not human trust? Would you let your ISP inject a CA in your OS and just rely on the trust of their employees to not look at your traffic? you're building your security model on the assumption that a private corporation's employees won't abuse access they structurally have, you rely on faith which imo is plain wrong. But even, the privacy factor has not been addressed, you are alright with MS correlating your entire life, many wouldn't accept that.
  - joe_mamba 6mo ago
    >I doubt workers stealing data (which is more frequent than you might think) Can you post a source for this? I'm sure every newspaper on the planet would love to publish headlines reading "MS workers are stealing your data", but that would require some actual proof, not made up FUD. >Do you really believe it's normal that banks are on Windows? It doesn't matter what I believe, what matters are the facts and reality on the street which is what I'm arguing. You are free to believe whatever you want, that doesn't make you right.
    - pixel_popping 6mo ago
      I'm not dying on a hill. From a security standpoint, every "trust" step is a security assumption that you cannot verify (especially on a Samsung phone), I'm just not willing to bet my threat model on the "goodwill" of a corporation whose business model is built on data aggregation, there is no proofs needed (MS has had a ton of breaches the last decade btw), but you do you. Let me ask you something and make an hypothetical and you must reply in good faith, this is because we don't agree on fundamental points on security: If you were a wanted criminal that still needs to work online somehow to make money, would you feel safe using Windows? I think we can agree that privacy and security are heavily intertwined. If your honest answer is no,then that alone tells you something about the OS trust model. And if your answer is "yes", then i'd genuinely like to hear why, because I can't think of a single compelling reason.
      - joe_mamba 6mo ago
        You first have to answer my challenges to your original statements, on how banks can use Windows without losing money to hackers, and how MS employees access your data, as per your claims. I first want to see sources hat back up your claims. Otherwise how can we know you're arguing in good faith and not stringing us along with more FUD and tinfoil conspiracies.
  - gambiting 6mo ago
    >>I doubt workers stealing data (which is more frequent than you might think) will just openly post about it. Can you explain what mechanism is there for Microsoft workers to steal data off my Windows PC that doesn't upload anything to OneDrive? Like I'm genuienly curious - how do they do it?