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a Maps Service that Lives in the Cloud What does that mean? Honestly, I do not understand it. Name-dropping the "cloud"? Is that meant to be negative or positi

by aw3c2 14y ago

a Maps Service that Lives in the Cloud What does that mean? Honestly, I do not understand it. Name-dropping the "cloud"? Is that meant to be negative or positive? Any big map service is bound to run on multiple redundant machines, isn't that the cloud? Seeing http://static.here.sc/maps/39568/core/features/intropage/img/shots/around-here.png http://static.here.sc/maps/39568/core/features/intropage/img... I cringe. Measuring distances like that does not work in the field, you can almost never walk in a straight line. Distances must be calculated by appropiate means of travel, eg streets for cars/bicycles or ways and walkable areas for pedestrians. Somewhere at Nokia a team of cartographers must be sobbing into their glasses of beer. Looking at random places I know, I can debunk their claim of "Most accurate map". OpenStreetMap is more accurate at those. (Anecdote!) This leads to my next critic. They want people fix/enhance the map data for them. But then it is NOT shared back, only as map image. The data stays with Nokia and you probably cannot even export your own contributions. Same as Google really. Adding "social" to a map service is a great idea. I was always wondering why none of the big players did that. The 3D stuff is amazing.

sravfeyn 14y ago
The headline is taken from the article http://www.technologyreview.com/news/507186/nokia-unveils-a-map-service-that-lives-in-the-cloud/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/507186/nokia-unveils-a-... I believe by cloud, they mean that the service can be accessed by any device with a browser, removing the necessity for a 'Maps App'.
- chrischen 14y ago
  So... like Google Maps?
- MehdiEG 14y ago
  Wow, this is going to be one spectacular flop. Or how to turn something ridiculously simple (go to here.com to get Nokia Maps on your iPhone, since this is probably what Nokia is aiming at here) into an incomprehensible buzzword soup.
Nursie 14y ago
Personally I liked their older model - a map and nav service that lived entirely on the handset. You could take the whole world with you, which is very useful in some of the more remote areas (like parts of Australia).
- zippopalermo 14y ago
  You still can...
  - Nursie 14y ago
    uh... good! Is that available on their Win Phones too? Not that I'm looking at buying nokia any time soon, I only replaced my N900 with a Galaxy Note earlier this year.
    - freehunter 14y ago
      One of the big draws of Nokia Maps on Windows Phone is that you can download offline maps of the entire world.
      - shrikant 14y ago
        ...and on all of the Symbian^3 crowd of phones as well. Quite a lifesaver when travelling around Europe and not wanting to get gouged on roaming data charges.
    - opayen 14y ago
      Yes, Windows Phone 8 has offline maps.
- Geee 14y ago
  I believe here.net works also in offline mode with HTML5 local storage, at least the old Nokia maps version did. Maybe the 'collections' feature stores the actual data on your phone.
paulgb 14y ago
>Measuring distances like that does not work in the field, you can almost never walk in a straight line. I agree with you on everything but this. It's really useful to have a ballpark walking time estimate in a new city. It gives you a sense of scale. London has similar distance circles on their outdoor maps and it's quite helpful.
- aw3c2 14y ago
  But measuring distance over the actually existing possible routes is much more accurate and honest. See these random examples: http://resources.esri.com/help/9.3/arcgisdesktop/com/gp_toolref/geoprocessing/GPKAC_network_service_area.gif http://resources.esri.com/help/9.3/arcgisdesktop/com/gp_tool... and http://blog.lib.umn.edu/levin031/transportationist//WalkingMap.png http://blog.lib.umn.edu/levin031/transportationist//WalkingM... Granted, this either needs more processing power server-side or a data model where the network (street, areas, etc) data is actually available on the client machine to calculate it. edit: http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ is a very nice detailed write-up about those maps.
  - paulgb 14y ago
    In both examples, concentric circles are a pretty good approximation. Considering that the 15-minute walk area will have high variability due to walking speed and traffic lights, detailed contours just give a false sense of accuracy. Like a bathroom scale that reports your weight to nine digits. Don't get me wrong, I love travel time maps in the right context. I actually made an interactive travel time map for transit in Toronto. It only works in Chrome but can be found here: http://ttcvis.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/ http://ttcvis.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/ Thanks for the link in the edit, I love write-ups of data visualizations and from a quick skim this looks really interesting.
jpalomaki 14y ago
It would be interesting experiment to implement the distance measurement as "contour lines". Take random points from the map, measure how long it takes to walk there from current point, draw 5min, 10min, 15min etc curves.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- aw3c2 14y ago
  Check out http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ or http://www.nctcog.org/trans/data/traveltimes/ http://www.nctcog.org/trans/data/traveltimes/
  - ZeroGravitas 14y ago
    The mysociety one just got revamped and relaunched recently http://www.mysociety.org/2012/11/08/mapumental-property-launches/ http://www.mysociety.org/2012/11/08/mapumental-property-laun...
tonyblundell 14y ago
By using the term 'cloud' I think they're pitching it against traditional sat-nav style apps that require a large up-front map-pack download.
lotso 14y ago
The measuring distances thing is not really a big deal in my opinion. Many apps do the same thing. Yelp does a search in this area view, which I've used and thought was a good implementation of searching in a map. Foursquare has a similar feature as well. The distance may not be entirely accurate, but it is good enough, and probably a better UI model.
jpdoctor 14y ago
> Name-dropping the "cloud"? You must be new around here. :/ Edit: My favorite link of the past few months indicated the percentage of people who believed that bad weather would affect cloud services. http://www.techspot.com/news/49980-majority-of-americans-believe-bad-weather-affects-cloud-computing.html http://www.techspot.com/news/49980-majority-of-americans-bel...
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  Hey, if you're on Amazon East there's a correlation.
  - jpdoctor 14y ago
    Er, um... you got me there.

by aw3c2 14y ago

sravfeyn 14y ago

The headline is taken from the article http://www.technologyreview.com/news/507186/nokia-unveils-a-map-service-that-lives-in-the-cloud/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/507186/nokia-unveils-a-... I believe by cloud, they mean that the service can be accessed by any device with a browser, removing the necessity for a 'Maps App'.

chrischen 14y ago
So... like Google Maps?
MehdiEG 14y ago
Wow, this is going to be one spectacular flop. Or how to turn something ridiculously simple (go to here.com to get Nokia Maps on your iPhone, since this is probably what Nokia is aiming at here) into an incomprehensible buzzword soup.

Nursie 14y ago

Personally I liked their older model - a map and nav service that lived entirely on the handset. You could take the whole world with you, which is very useful in some of the more remote areas (like parts of Australia).

zippopalermo 14y ago
You still can...
- Nursie 14y ago
  uh... good! Is that available on their Win Phones too? Not that I'm looking at buying nokia any time soon, I only replaced my N900 with a Galaxy Note earlier this year.
  - freehunter 14y ago
    One of the big draws of Nokia Maps on Windows Phone is that you can download offline maps of the entire world.
    - shrikant 14y ago
      ...and on all of the Symbian^3 crowd of phones as well. Quite a lifesaver when travelling around Europe and not wanting to get gouged on roaming data charges.
  - opayen 14y ago
    Yes, Windows Phone 8 has offline maps.
Geee 14y ago
I believe here.net works also in offline mode with HTML5 local storage, at least the old Nokia maps version did. Maybe the 'collections' feature stores the actual data on your phone.

paulgb 14y ago

>Measuring distances like that does not work in the field, you can almost never walk in a straight line. I agree with you on everything but this. It's really useful to have a ballpark walking time estimate in a new city. It gives you a sense of scale. London has similar distance circles on their outdoor maps and it's quite helpful.

aw3c2 14y ago
But measuring distance over the actually existing possible routes is much more accurate and honest. See these random examples: http://resources.esri.com/help/9.3/arcgisdesktop/com/gp_toolref/geoprocessing/GPKAC_network_service_area.gif http://resources.esri.com/help/9.3/arcgisdesktop/com/gp_tool... and http://blog.lib.umn.edu/levin031/transportationist//WalkingMap.png http://blog.lib.umn.edu/levin031/transportationist//WalkingM... Granted, this either needs more processing power server-side or a data model where the network (street, areas, etc) data is actually available on the client machine to calculate it. edit: http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ is a very nice detailed write-up about those maps.
- paulgb 14y ago
  In both examples, concentric circles are a pretty good approximation. Considering that the 15-minute walk area will have high variability due to walking speed and traffic lights, detailed contours just give a false sense of accuracy. Like a bathroom scale that reports your weight to nine digits. Don't get me wrong, I love travel time maps in the right context. I actually made an interactive travel time map for transit in Toronto. It only works in Chrome but can be found here: http://ttcvis.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/ http://ttcvis.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/ Thanks for the link in the edit, I love write-ups of data visualizations and from a quick skim this looks really interesting.

jpalomaki 14y ago

It would be interesting experiment to implement the distance measurement as "contour lines". Take random points from the map, measure how long it takes to walk there from current point, draw 5min, 10min, 15min etc curves.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
aw3c2 14y ago
Check out http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ http://www.mysociety.org/2006/travel-time-maps/ or http://www.nctcog.org/trans/data/traveltimes/ http://www.nctcog.org/trans/data/traveltimes/
- ZeroGravitas 14y ago
  The mysociety one just got revamped and relaunched recently http://www.mysociety.org/2012/11/08/mapumental-property-launches/ http://www.mysociety.org/2012/11/08/mapumental-property-laun...

tonyblundell 14y ago

By using the term 'cloud' I think they're pitching it against traditional sat-nav style apps that require a large up-front map-pack download.

lotso 14y ago

The measuring distances thing is not really a big deal in my opinion. Many apps do the same thing. Yelp does a search in this area view, which I've used and thought was a good implementation of searching in a map. Foursquare has a similar feature as well. The distance may not be entirely accurate, but it is good enough, and probably a better UI model.

jpdoctor 14y ago

> Name-dropping the "cloud"? You must be new around here. :/ Edit: My favorite link of the past few months indicated the percentage of people who believed that bad weather would affect cloud services. http://www.techspot.com/news/49980-majority-of-americans-believe-bad-weather-affects-cloud-computing.html http://www.techspot.com/news/49980-majority-of-americans-bel...

fusiongyro 14y ago
Hey, if you're on Amazon East there's a correlation.
- jpdoctor 14y ago
  Er, um... you got me there.