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In constant dollars cars are actually pretty much the same as they were 40+ years ago when you compare similar types and trim levels. A new Honda Civic for exam

by tzs 6mo ago

In constant dollars cars are actually pretty much the same as they were 40+ years ago when you compare similar types and trim levels. A new Honda Civic for example costs about the same when you take into account inflation as the Civic I bought in 1989. The average price people are paying for a new car now is (in constant dollars) about twice what it was back when I got that '89 Civic, but that is because a larger percentage of buyers nowadays are buying bigger and/or more luxurious cars. It's quite remarkable when you take into account how much more technology and safety features are in new cars. My '89 Civic didn't even have cruise control.

sidewndr46 6mo ago
You've got the cause and effect backwards here. The average purchase price of a car in constant dollars is about double now because those are the only cars to purchase and the only group that can afford those cars are those who are affluent. In general the people who purchase new vehicles ironically are not the ones who own them. They consistently purchase new vehicles at a regular cadence. The existence of some base model Honda Civic or similar doesn't imply you or anyone can actually buy one.
- roncesvalles 6mo ago
  >because those are the only cars to purchase and the only group that can afford those cars are those who are affluent What is the basis for you to assume this and not, for example, the fact that people simply spend a bigger percentage of their earnings on cars now? You can definitely buy the base model Civic that you see online. It was only during COVID that you couldn't due to inventory shortages.
  - selimthegrim 6mo ago
    You're going to be waiting for a while as the dealership finance people make you run the gantlet.
- cucumber3732842 6mo ago
  >The existence of some base model Honda Civic or similar doesn't imply you or anyone can actually buy one. There's a regulatory required number (it's not many) of those supper stripped down below the base model cars they have to make to advertise the "starting at price" so you can find them if you really try. I know this because I know an old lady who (close to 20yr ago now) sought out the super base model of the.... wait for it.... first year of the CVT Nissan Altima! It didn't even have a radio. It proved to be really reliable because it was well cared for and not driven hard, she gave it away to a nephew a year or so ago.
- tzs 6mo ago
  I wasn't talking about just base trims of the cheapest models. For example in 1989 the Honda Accord ranged from $11.5-18.2k depending on trim. Converted to today's dollars using CPI that is $31-50k. Converted using the Social Security indexing factors [1] it is $38-60. The SSA indexing factors are probably better for comparing car affordability of infrequently purchased big tickets items. The range of new Accord prices right now is $28-39k. They are all readily available. Honda lists 11, 20, 24, 12, 11, and 21 available nearby for the LX, SE, Sport Hybrid, EX-L Hybrid, Sport-L Hybrid, and Touring Hybrid trims. The 1998 CR-V was $18.4-$21.1k. Converted using CPI that is $31-43k, and converted using SSA indexing it is $44-50k. New CR-Vs today are $27-42k. (I'm omitting the $50k plug-in hydrogen fuel-cell model which is not readily available). They are all readily available, with Honda listing 15, 50, 48, 118, 49, 96, and 84 of the LX, EX, Sport Hybrid, EX-L, TrailSport Hybrid, Sport-L Hybrid, and Sport Touring Hybrid nearby. [1] These are what the Social Security Administration uses for normalizing across years when computing total contribution amounts. This is based on the mean annual salary.
  - mymythisisthis 6mo ago
    The 1994 Pontiac Sunbird was $12,000, that's $26,000 in today's money. A 1990 Dodge Omni cost $7,000, that's $18,000 in today's money.
HDBaseT 6mo ago
A 1999 Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, assuming serviced regularly (and competently) could easily be on the road today. I genuinely do not believe a 2025 car will usable on the road in 2035 (a mere 9 years), yet known 15 or 20 years from now. They are all too hamstrung by technology and whilst some of the technology is an improvement, a vast majority if malicious.
- autoexec 6mo ago
  > I genuinely do not believe a 2025 car will usable on the road in 2035 If it is you'll probably be forced to pay a monthly subscription
  - tzs 6mo ago
    You can buy current cars that do not require any subscription services. For example on my 2025 Hyundai here is what would stop working without a Bluelink subscription. • Anything you do through the Bluelink app. • Automatic calling for help after a collision, enhanced roadside assistance (sends GPS coordinates to help center so you don't have to know where you are to get help), and features to track and immobilize stolen vehicles. • The navigation system loses access to live traffic data and live routing (routing the frequently checks with a server to update routes based on live and historical traffic patterns). Local search also degrades or maybe goes away. • OTA updates for the navigation system. If you want to update its maps and databases you can download the update from their site to a thumb drive, and then install it via that. What keeps working: • All the driver assist and driving safety features like adaptive cruise control, lane finding/keeping, cross traffic warnings, and similar. • CarPlay and Android Auto. • The radio in the infotainment system. You can connect your phone via Bluetooth or USB (without using CarPlay or Android Auto) to stream music and handle phone calls.
- diogenescynic 6mo ago
  The reason Toyota prices are still so high is because they're one of the only vehicles that are still so reliable (Mazda and Honda are actually great too). I think a 2025 Lexus GX 550 will almost certainly be on the road in 2035. Anything electric I am less certain of because they depreciate way faster and the build quality sucks.

by tzs 6mo ago

sidewndr46 6mo ago

You've got the cause and effect backwards here. The average purchase price of a car in constant dollars is about double now because those are the only cars to purchase and the only group that can afford those cars are those who are affluent. In general the people who purchase new vehicles ironically are not the ones who own them. They consistently purchase new vehicles at a regular cadence. The existence of some base model Honda Civic or similar doesn't imply you or anyone can actually buy one.

roncesvalles 6mo ago
>because those are the only cars to purchase and the only group that can afford those cars are those who are affluent What is the basis for you to assume this and not, for example, the fact that people simply spend a bigger percentage of their earnings on cars now? You can definitely buy the base model Civic that you see online. It was only during COVID that you couldn't due to inventory shortages.
- selimthegrim 6mo ago
  You're going to be waiting for a while as the dealership finance people make you run the gantlet.
cucumber3732842 6mo ago
>The existence of some base model Honda Civic or similar doesn't imply you or anyone can actually buy one. There's a regulatory required number (it's not many) of those supper stripped down below the base model cars they have to make to advertise the "starting at price" so you can find them if you really try. I know this because I know an old lady who (close to 20yr ago now) sought out the super base model of the.... wait for it.... first year of the CVT Nissan Altima! It didn't even have a radio. It proved to be really reliable because it was well cared for and not driven hard, she gave it away to a nephew a year or so ago.
tzs 6mo ago
I wasn't talking about just base trims of the cheapest models. For example in 1989 the Honda Accord ranged from $11.5-18.2k depending on trim. Converted to today's dollars using CPI that is $31-50k. Converted using the Social Security indexing factors [1] it is $38-60. The SSA indexing factors are probably better for comparing car affordability of infrequently purchased big tickets items. The range of new Accord prices right now is $28-39k. They are all readily available. Honda lists 11, 20, 24, 12, 11, and 21 available nearby for the LX, SE, Sport Hybrid, EX-L Hybrid, Sport-L Hybrid, and Touring Hybrid trims. The 1998 CR-V was $18.4-$21.1k. Converted using CPI that is $31-43k, and converted using SSA indexing it is $44-50k. New CR-Vs today are $27-42k. (I'm omitting the $50k plug-in hydrogen fuel-cell model which is not readily available). They are all readily available, with Honda listing 15, 50, 48, 118, 49, 96, and 84 of the LX, EX, Sport Hybrid, EX-L, TrailSport Hybrid, Sport-L Hybrid, and Sport Touring Hybrid nearby. [1] These are what the Social Security Administration uses for normalizing across years when computing total contribution amounts. This is based on the mean annual salary.
- mymythisisthis 6mo ago
  The 1994 Pontiac Sunbird was $12,000, that's $26,000 in today's money. A 1990 Dodge Omni cost $7,000, that's $18,000 in today's money.

HDBaseT 6mo ago

A 1999 Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, assuming serviced regularly (and competently) could easily be on the road today. I genuinely do not believe a 2025 car will usable on the road in 2035 (a mere 9 years), yet known 15 or 20 years from now. They are all too hamstrung by technology and whilst some of the technology is an improvement, a vast majority if malicious.

autoexec 6mo ago
> I genuinely do not believe a 2025 car will usable on the road in 2035 If it is you'll probably be forced to pay a monthly subscription
- tzs 6mo ago
  You can buy current cars that do not require any subscription services. For example on my 2025 Hyundai here is what would stop working without a Bluelink subscription. • Anything you do through the Bluelink app. • Automatic calling for help after a collision, enhanced roadside assistance (sends GPS coordinates to help center so you don't have to know where you are to get help), and features to track and immobilize stolen vehicles. • The navigation system loses access to live traffic data and live routing (routing the frequently checks with a server to update routes based on live and historical traffic patterns). Local search also degrades or maybe goes away. • OTA updates for the navigation system. If you want to update its maps and databases you can download the update from their site to a thumb drive, and then install it via that. What keeps working: • All the driver assist and driving safety features like adaptive cruise control, lane finding/keeping, cross traffic warnings, and similar. • CarPlay and Android Auto. • The radio in the infotainment system. You can connect your phone via Bluetooth or USB (without using CarPlay or Android Auto) to stream music and handle phone calls.
diogenescynic 6mo ago
The reason Toyota prices are still so high is because they're one of the only vehicles that are still so reliable (Mazda and Honda are actually great too). I think a 2025 Lexus GX 550 will almost certainly be on the road in 2035. Anything electric I am less certain of because they depreciate way faster and the build quality sucks.