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There were riots in the streets, it was just over another black guy being killed by a racist cop though.

by tayo42 6mo ago

chasd00 6mo ago
yeah and remember when those gatherings/protests got a thumbs up from the CDC but having friends over for dinner was off the table? God, what a ridiculous time that was.
- ceejayoz 6mo ago
  Almost like outside and inside are different, eh?
  - suttontom 6mo ago
    The hypocrisy was most notable in experts who said those protesting against the lockdowns (outside), who were considered right wing, were risking spreading the disease, but then said the opposite when the protests supported a left-wing narrative. Also the CDC who said you had to stay six feet apart even outside who then were OK with people gathering close together during protests and shouting (specifically called out by the CDC as a risky behavior).
    - ceejayoz 6mo ago
      We do a lot of risk/reward balancing in life. Maybe we can discuss specific cases, if you like, but "I want to whine about public health restrictions" and "someone got murdered by the state" perhaps have different risk/reward profiles. We know ventilation matters. Public health officials flubbed this one pretty reliably; schools and doctors' offices should've had HEPA filters in every room instead of clorox wiping everything obsessively. Outdoor protests, in hindsight (and of either kind), were a nothingburger for COVID spread.
      - twoodfin 6mo ago
        “I want my father to have a proper funeral with his family.” “I want to visit my aunt in her nursing home.” “I’d like to do some gardening in my Michigan backyard.” The issue wasn’t risk/reward tradeoffs, it was who was allowed to make them and who was not.
        ceejayoz 6mo ago
        > I want my father to have a proper funeral with his family.” Large indoor gathering. > “I want to visit my aunt in her nursing home.” Indoors and high risk population. > “I’d like to do some gardening in my Michigan backyard.” When was this banned?
        twoodfin 6mo ago
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/04/16/michigan-bans-many-stores-from-selling-seeds-home-gardening-supplies-calls-them-not-necessary/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/04/16/michigan... It’s nice that you have all the answers when it comes to risk/reward tradeoffs. Trust the Science!
        ceejayoz 6mo ago
        As suspected, no such ban. You were able to work in your garden at will. And as the article notes, almost immediately reversed. A note about this: > Curiously, the state’s list of “not necessary” items doesn’t include lottery tickets and liquor, which stores can continue to sell. Alcohol withdrawal is deadly. No one needed a bunch of extra ICU cases. (I can’t speak to the lottery. I wonder if there’s a legal issue there, though.)
        twoodfin 6mo ago
        How in the world are you able to “just so” all this stuff? What are the principles or theories behind how these decisions were made? Boy at the time they seemed panicky and capricious. Wrong?
  - embeng4096 6mo ago
    So why were public outdoor areas like skate parks filled with sand to “promote social distancing”?[1] Or parking lots at beaches and state parks closed “to curb the spread of coronavirus”?[2] [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/coronavirus-san-clemente-skatepark-37-tons-sand-social-distancing/ https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/coronavirus-san-clem... [2]: https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2020/03/coronavirus-california-state-parks-beaches-parking-lots-closed-gavin-newsom/ https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2020/03/coronaviru...
    - ceejayoz 6mo ago
      > So why were public outdoor areas like skate parks filled with sand to “promote social distancing”? Because we didn't know better yet. Note the date; April 17, 2020; just a couple weeks in. Restrictions on outdoor activities were rapidly lifted once we got a handle on how spread happened.
      - embeng4096 6mo ago
        LA County Parks is implementing following changes effective November 30, 2020: All playgrounds will be closed. Fitness zones and exercise equipment will be closed. Parks and trails remain open for outdoor, passive use for individuals or members of the same household. Masks and physical distancing are required. No group gatherings are permitted https://covid19.lacounty.gov/covid19-2-2/closures/ https://covid19.lacounty.gov/covid19-2-2/closures/ Emphasis mine Edit: and for reference, because I do think you have a point, the George Floyd protests started months before November 2020.
        ceejayoz 6mo ago
        So LA was being a bit dumb. See also: Schools wiping surfaces instead of opening windows.
        embeng4096 6mo ago
        NYC playgrounds closed until July 2020 (a time concurrent with ongoing protests): https://data.cityofnewyork.us/dataset/Parks-Closure-Status-Due-to-COVID-19-Playgrounds/a4qt-mpr5/data_preview https://data.cityofnewyork.us/dataset/Parks-Closure-Status-D... Washington state continues to close park/trail facilities through July 2021: https://www.wta.org/go-outside/social-distancing-hiking-in-the-time-of-coronavirus https://www.wta.org/go-outside/social-distancing-hiking-in-t... I agree with you that some protocols were dumb. Schools should have opened windows, or added UV-C lights, or replaced high-traffic surfaces like doorknobs in large common areas with antiviral materiel, added foot-use mechanisms for opening doors, and so on. Or, if it was too expensive for any of that, asked cleaning staff to spend more time on high-transmission areas like bathroom faucets and doorknobs even if it meant less time elsewhere. But I think there's something more than just outdoor vs indoor going on.
giardini 6mo ago
[flagged]

There were riots in the streets, it was just over another black guy being killed by a racist cop though.

by tayo42 6mo ago

There were riots in the streets, it was just over another black guy being killed by a racist cop though.

yeah and remember when those gatherings/protests got a thumbs up from the CDC but having friends over for dinner was off the table? God, what a ridiculous time that was.

ceejayoz 6mo ago
Almost like outside and inside are different, eh?
- suttontom 6mo ago
  The hypocrisy was most notable in experts who said those protesting against the lockdowns (outside), who were considered right wing, were risking spreading the disease, but then said the opposite when the protests supported a left-wing narrative. Also the CDC who said you had to stay six feet apart even outside who then were OK with people gathering close together during protests and shouting (specifically called out by the CDC as a risky behavior).
  - ceejayoz 6mo ago
    We do a lot of risk/reward balancing in life. Maybe we can discuss specific cases, if you like, but "I want to whine about public health restrictions" and "someone got murdered by the state" perhaps have different risk/reward profiles. We know ventilation matters. Public health officials flubbed this one pretty reliably; schools and doctors' offices should've had HEPA filters in every room instead of clorox wiping everything obsessively. Outdoor protests, in hindsight (and of either kind), were a nothingburger for COVID spread.
    - twoodfin 6mo ago
      “I want my father to have a proper funeral with his family.” “I want to visit my aunt in her nursing home.” “I’d like to do some gardening in my Michigan backyard.” The issue wasn’t risk/reward tradeoffs, it was who was allowed to make them and who was not.
      - ceejayoz 6mo ago
        > I want my father to have a proper funeral with his family.” Large indoor gathering. > “I want to visit my aunt in her nursing home.” Indoors and high risk population. > “I’d like to do some gardening in my Michigan backyard.” When was this banned?
        twoodfin 6mo ago
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/04/16/michigan-bans-many-stores-from-selling-seeds-home-gardening-supplies-calls-them-not-necessary/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksibilla/2020/04/16/michigan... It’s nice that you have all the answers when it comes to risk/reward tradeoffs. Trust the Science!
        ceejayoz 6mo ago
        As suspected, no such ban. You were able to work in your garden at will. And as the article notes, almost immediately reversed. A note about this: > Curiously, the state’s list of “not necessary” items doesn’t include lottery tickets and liquor, which stores can continue to sell. Alcohol withdrawal is deadly. No one needed a bunch of extra ICU cases. (I can’t speak to the lottery. I wonder if there’s a legal issue there, though.)
        twoodfin 6mo ago
        How in the world are you able to “just so” all this stuff? What are the principles or theories behind how these decisions were made? Boy at the time they seemed panicky and capricious. Wrong?
- embeng4096 6mo ago
  So why were public outdoor areas like skate parks filled with sand to “promote social distancing”?[1] Or parking lots at beaches and state parks closed “to curb the spread of coronavirus”?[2] [1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/coronavirus-san-clemente-skatepark-37-tons-sand-social-distancing/ https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/coronavirus-san-clem... [2]: https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2020/03/coronavirus-california-state-parks-beaches-parking-lots-closed-gavin-newsom/ https://calmatters.org/health/coronavirus/2020/03/coronaviru...
  - ceejayoz 6mo ago
    > So why were public outdoor areas like skate parks filled with sand to “promote social distancing”? Because we didn't know better yet. Note the date; April 17, 2020; just a couple weeks in. Restrictions on outdoor activities were rapidly lifted once we got a handle on how spread happened.
    - embeng4096 6mo ago
      LA County Parks is implementing following changes effective November 30, 2020: All playgrounds will be closed. Fitness zones and exercise equipment will be closed. Parks and trails remain open for outdoor, passive use for individuals or members of the same household. Masks and physical distancing are required. No group gatherings are permitted https://covid19.lacounty.gov/covid19-2-2/closures/ https://covid19.lacounty.gov/covid19-2-2/closures/ Emphasis mine Edit: and for reference, because I do think you have a point, the George Floyd protests started months before November 2020.
      - ceejayoz 6mo ago
        So LA was being a bit dumb. See also: Schools wiping surfaces instead of opening windows.
        embeng4096 6mo ago
        NYC playgrounds closed until July 2020 (a time concurrent with ongoing protests): https://data.cityofnewyork.us/dataset/Parks-Closure-Status-Due-to-COVID-19-Playgrounds/a4qt-mpr5/data_preview https://data.cityofnewyork.us/dataset/Parks-Closure-Status-D... Washington state continues to close park/trail facilities through July 2021: https://www.wta.org/go-outside/social-distancing-hiking-in-the-time-of-coronavirus https://www.wta.org/go-outside/social-distancing-hiking-in-t... I agree with you that some protocols were dumb. Schools should have opened windows, or added UV-C lights, or replaced high-traffic surfaces like doorknobs in large common areas with antiviral materiel, added foot-use mechanisms for opening doors, and so on. Or, if it was too expensive for any of that, asked cleaning staff to spend more time on high-transmission areas like bathroom faucets and doorknobs even if it meant less time elsewhere. But I think there's something more than just outdoor vs indoor going on.

giardini 6mo ago

[flagged]