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San Francisco Public Library [0] is the best resource for readers in California. Of all the libraries in the state, I've found they are the most likely to acqui

San Francisco Public Library [0] is the best resource for readers in California. Of all the libraries in the state, I've found they are the most likely to acquire new titles, and often they are the only holder if the subject is particularly niche and technical. Even most university libraries are switching to digital collections *which can't be loaned out*. One reason I say SFPL is great for all^H^H^H many Californians+ is their book collection is available for free pickup at a your local library via the inter-library sharing program, Link+ [1]. ((People, submit purchase requests at your local libraries. It's what it's for.)) The other is that they are subscribers to "O'Reilly for Public Libraries", which lets people access Everything from O'Reilly for Free [2]. [0]: https://sfpl.org/ https://sfpl.org/ [1]: https://linkencore.iii.com/ https://linkencore.iii.com/ [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOsOTawdWFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOsOTawdWFc

rahimnathwani 6mo ago
My point was not whether $35/year per person on books is a lot or a little. I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not! Libraries themselves (and by extension, taxpayers) suffer from high book prices. Separately, would you mind explaining this part, as I'm not familiar with university libraries: "Even most university libraries are switching to digital collections which can't be loaned out." Does this mean you can only read the digital collections when physically present in the library, or that they're only available to members and not via inter-library loan? A few years ago I suggested a book via this form: https://sfpl.org/services/ask-librarian/suggest-title https://sfpl.org/services/ask-librarian/suggest-title I never received any response. I've since (very recently) learned there's another way to suggest titles here: https://sfpl.bibliocommons.com/user_dashboard#overlay456 https://sfpl.bibliocommons.com/user_dashboard#overlay456 Just now, I went to suggest a book there and got a popup message saying they won't get that book because it's over 10 years old. It's a book about critical thinking. It doesn't need to be updated.
- toast0 6mo ago
  > I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not! Most of the books I've bought got read by me, and then sit on a shelf forever. If a book is bought by a library, and used multiple times before it's weeded, that's a big win for $/read. > Just now, I went to suggest a book there and got a popup message saying they won't get that book because it's over 10 years old. It's a book about critical thinking. It doesn't need to be updated. I think the library is suggesting a 10 year old book might be better accessed through other means. Can you get it from interlibrary loan? Is it available on the used market? It may not be available through the library's usual sourcing, etc.
  - rahimnathwani 6mo ago
    Why would the age of the book matter? If it were from a big publisher and they were to publish a new substantially-unchanged edition every three years, why would that make the library willing to consider the book? The book in question is still in print and still available new.
    - toast0 6mo ago
      If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget. If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.
      - so-cal-schemer 6mo ago
        That's why it's great that SFPL purchases such a wide variety of books. You can't ILL something if nobody has it. When I was a teen I got my local library to acquire copies of a number of tech classics: SICP, K&R, Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated, ANSI CL, ... all discarded to my everlasting disappointment.
        so-cal-schemer 6mo ago
- so-cal-schemer 6mo ago
  Yes. I've found criteria for new books at public libraries to be very limiting. They usually will only acquire newly published books (published within a year or so). But they do get a discount from the publisher, perhaps 30%. Basically, they will buy books that nobody's had a chance to review yet or talk about, but won't buy books published a year ago that everyone cites and recommends. It's a broken policy. I'd say it is a way to avoid the high cost of books tho, in that they are a shared resource. Dozens of people may check out a single copy within a year. E-books at public libraries are more accessible, but only a finite number of copies may be accessed by patrons at a time - less accessible than you might think. Additionally, e-books are not owned, but leased. And the cost is substantial and comparable to the cost of a physical copy, and re-paid every few years. Another way libraries avoid the cost of new books is by relying on other libraries to expand their collection. When my local library joined LINK+, for instance, they substantially decreased the amount of new books they would acquire, and it's stripping influence from the individual patron. Good luck borrowing a copy of Laws of Software Engineering [0] anywhere. Or Crafting Interpreters [1]. As far as university collections go, most have large libraries with huge collections that are available to borrow - somehow. But most of the books are very old. The new acquisitions are primarily digital and may only be accessed through a locked terminal or web portal. Whether the general public has access varies and often costs quite a bit or is free for the immediate community. Here is info on borrowing at a few: https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/find/borrow-renew https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/find/borrow-renew ($100/yr for CA residents, limited access to the library, no remote access) https://library.claremont.edu/borrowing/ https://library.claremont.edu/borrowing/ (limited to nearby county residents, but free. no remote access or ebooks) https://library.stanford.edu/about-stanford-libraries/visitor-access https://library.stanford.edu/about-stanford-libraries/visito... (range of options: $1000/yr to $35/two-weeks, remote unclear) I have had some luck accessing some e-books at some colleges, but for the most part you need to have a login. It really depends on their policies and licensing deals with digital publishers. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847179 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40950235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40950235

rahimnathwani 6mo ago

My point was not whether $35/year per person on books is a lot or a little. I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not! Libraries themselves (and by extension, taxpayers) suffer from high book prices. Separately, would you mind explaining this part, as I'm not familiar with university libraries: "Even most university libraries are switching to digital collections which can't be loaned out." Does this mean you can only read the digital collections when physically present in the library, or that they're only available to members and not via inter-library loan? A few years ago I suggested a book via this form: https://sfpl.org/services/ask-librarian/suggest-title https://sfpl.org/services/ask-librarian/suggest-title I never received any response. I've since (very recently) learned there's another way to suggest titles here: https://sfpl.bibliocommons.com/user_dashboard#overlay456 https://sfpl.bibliocommons.com/user_dashboard#overlay456 Just now, I went to suggest a book there and got a popup message saying they won't get that book because it's over 10 years old. It's a book about critical thinking. It doesn't need to be updated.

toast0 6mo ago
> I was responding to a comment where someone suggested libraries were a way to avoid high book prices. But they're not! Most of the books I've bought got read by me, and then sit on a shelf forever. If a book is bought by a library, and used multiple times before it's weeded, that's a big win for $/read. > Just now, I went to suggest a book there and got a popup message saying they won't get that book because it's over 10 years old. It's a book about critical thinking. It doesn't need to be updated. I think the library is suggesting a 10 year old book might be better accessed through other means. Can you get it from interlibrary loan? Is it available on the used market? It may not be available through the library's usual sourcing, etc.
- rahimnathwani 6mo ago
  Why would the age of the book matter? If it were from a big publisher and they were to publish a new substantially-unchanged edition every three years, why would that make the library willing to consider the book? The book in question is still in print and still available new.
  - toast0 6mo ago
    If nobody wanted it in the first 10 years it was available, chances are it's only going to get one circulation if they buy it for you. That's not a great use of the libraries purchase budget or shelf space budget. If they had a copy that wore out and it was circulated many times, they would have reordered it when they discarded it.
    - so-cal-schemer 6mo ago
      That's why it's great that SFPL purchases such a wide variety of books. You can't ILL something if nobody has it. When I was a teen I got my local library to acquire copies of a number of tech classics: SICP, K&R, Stevens' TCP/IP Illustrated, ANSI CL, ... all discarded to my everlasting disappointment.
      - so-cal-schemer 6mo ago
so-cal-schemer 6mo ago
Yes. I've found criteria for new books at public libraries to be very limiting. They usually will only acquire newly published books (published within a year or so). But they do get a discount from the publisher, perhaps 30%. Basically, they will buy books that nobody's had a chance to review yet or talk about, but won't buy books published a year ago that everyone cites and recommends. It's a broken policy. I'd say it is a way to avoid the high cost of books tho, in that they are a shared resource. Dozens of people may check out a single copy within a year. E-books at public libraries are more accessible, but only a finite number of copies may be accessed by patrons at a time - less accessible than you might think. Additionally, e-books are not owned, but leased. And the cost is substantial and comparable to the cost of a physical copy, and re-paid every few years. Another way libraries avoid the cost of new books is by relying on other libraries to expand their collection. When my local library joined LINK+, for instance, they substantially decreased the amount of new books they would acquire, and it's stripping influence from the individual patron. Good luck borrowing a copy of Laws of Software Engineering [0] anywhere. Or Crafting Interpreters [1]. As far as university collections go, most have large libraries with huge collections that are available to borrow - somehow. But most of the books are very old. The new acquisitions are primarily digital and may only be accessed through a locked terminal or web portal. Whether the general public has access varies and often costs quite a bit or is free for the immediate community. Here is info on borrowing at a few: https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/find/borrow-renew https://www.lib.berkeley.edu/find/borrow-renew ($100/yr for CA residents, limited access to the library, no remote access) https://library.claremont.edu/borrowing/ https://library.claremont.edu/borrowing/ (limited to nearby county residents, but free. no remote access or ebooks) https://library.stanford.edu/about-stanford-libraries/visitor-access https://library.stanford.edu/about-stanford-libraries/visito... (range of options: $1000/yr to $35/two-weeks, remote unclear) I have had some luck accessing some e-books at some colleges, but for the most part you need to have a login. It really depends on their policies and licensing deals with digital publishers. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47847179 [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40950235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40950235