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"Our constitution has failed" - Ron Paul, upon retiring

9 points by sixQuarks 14y ago

sixQuarks 14y ago
What are some ways the founding fathers could have prevented what Ron Paul sees happening to this country?
- 001sky 14y ago
  Maybe its like money: 1st gen makes it, 2nd gen keeps it, 3rd gen blows it. by this logic the founding father's are not the issue. its down to human nature, culture, and perhaps a little familiarity (entitlement) breeding contempt (for what made you successful). &tc
  - sixQuarks 14y ago
    Well, if we know how human nature acts, there should be ways to draft up a better, iron-clad constitution. But I suppose human nature has ways to go around everything.
    - 001sky 14y ago
      yes, life is an exercise in discretion
cafard 14y ago
"The problem isn't just government's size, but its use of force, both in starting preemptive wars and as it coerces U.S. citizens with police power. To Paul, this is the fault of Americans who no longer prioritize liberty, and it will lead to the unraveling of orderly society unless people change." 1. At the time the Constitution was ratified, the US had effective control to the Alleghanies and in a few enclaves beyond along the rivers. By 1852, California was a state. Yes, the Missouri Purchase was a purchase, but there was a lot of warfare involved in getting control of it. Yes, various other tracts were bought, but usually with the implicit threat of force, or in settlement of a war. So the founders were pacifists only to the extent that it suited them. 2. Jefferson's administration found itself minutely regulation coastal trade to enforce the embargo. Jefferson had been in great sympathy with the Pennsylvanians during the "Whiskey Rebellion", but the embargo was his own to defend. 3. One suffers from a kind of optical illusion if one considers the Constitution per se. It set out the rules for the federal government, not for the states, which were a much larger presence in most lives. I am not saying that we should be happy with the state of the union, just that imagining a splendid past has its pitfalls.

9 points by sixQuarks 14y ago

sixQuarks 14y ago

What are some ways the founding fathers could have prevented what Ron Paul sees happening to this country?

001sky 14y ago
Maybe its like money: 1st gen makes it, 2nd gen keeps it, 3rd gen blows it. by this logic the founding father's are not the issue. its down to human nature, culture, and perhaps a little familiarity (entitlement) breeding contempt (for what made you successful). &tc
- sixQuarks 14y ago
  Well, if we know how human nature acts, there should be ways to draft up a better, iron-clad constitution. But I suppose human nature has ways to go around everything.
  - 001sky 14y ago
    yes, life is an exercise in discretion

cafard 14y ago

"The problem isn't just government's size, but its use of force, both in starting preemptive wars and as it coerces U.S. citizens with police power. To Paul, this is the fault of Americans who no longer prioritize liberty, and it will lead to the unraveling of orderly society unless people change." 1. At the time the Constitution was ratified, the US had effective control to the Alleghanies and in a few enclaves beyond along the rivers. By 1852, California was a state. Yes, the Missouri Purchase was a purchase, but there was a lot of warfare involved in getting control of it. Yes, various other tracts were bought, but usually with the implicit threat of force, or in settlement of a war. So the founders were pacifists only to the extent that it suited them. 2. Jefferson's administration found itself minutely regulation coastal trade to enforce the embargo. Jefferson had been in great sympathy with the Pennsylvanians during the "Whiskey Rebellion", but the embargo was his own to defend. 3. One suffers from a kind of optical illusion if one considers the Constitution per se. It set out the rules for the federal government, not for the states, which were a much larger presence in most lives. I am not saying that we should be happy with the state of the union, just that imagining a splendid past has its pitfalls.