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Holy shit! What the fuck are they doing? This is absolutely insane! What better way to create more terrorists than by laughing in their faces, publishing milit

Holy shit! What the fuck are they doing? This is absolutely insane! What better way to create more terrorists than by laughing in their faces, publishing military operations on Twitter as if they were trivial events, showing military kill strikes on YouTube and using game like graphics stating their leaders have been "eliminated". Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence or do you want to win? Do your military operations - kill terrorists or don't - protect your borders or don't - I don't frankly give a damn. But don't give the enemy more emotional ammunition than necessary, especially since you know they will use this as perfect fodder to indoctrinate even more people to their cause - especially children. This is the stuff they'll show kids, stating "Look, do you see how they mock us! - This is why you must fight and die!". You're just setting up the next wave of violence. This is why the US military didn't release anything to do with Osama's assassination, and buried him at sea - nothing to worship, nothing to point to, nothing to show the people you want to brainwash - and say "Look how they mock us!". You don't poke a cornered enemy unnecessarily. The expected value of that is negative. It's not a fucking game.

davidkatz 14y ago
I agree that the tone is childish and unnecessary, but I doubt it makes much of a difference. Large organisations are still figuring out how to use social media, but in principle publishing an operation on twitter is no different than putting our a press release or sending someone for an interview at a major TV channel. Same goes for making videos available on YouTube, I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, since I don't watch TV I would have never seen this video if it wasn't made available online.
- confluence 14y ago
  Reminds me of a key tenet I heard about PR is: It's not what you say, but how you say it. A dry press release, no image data, and a dry political report from the relevant spokesperson is perfect for this - there's nothing to latch onto - if you just list the facts, and get it over with. It's what Obama did after Osama was assassinated, and it worked well - there was nothing offensive to latch on to, nothing to point to, and say "Look, that's what you are fighting for!".
meepmorp 14y ago
I agree in principle, but honestly this is pretty low on the list of things that Israel does that helps build the next wave of Palestinian militants. The blockade of the Gaza Strip, for example - whatever you think of its merits - has had a fairly harsh effect on average people living there, and has been a effective tool in keeping the support for Hamas high. It's let up somewhat recently, though it'll be interesting to see what happens with the ongoing political turmoil in Egypt.
- DodgyEggplant 14y ago
  "blockade of the Gaza Strip" Gaza strip borders Egypt on the southwest (11 km) and Israel on the east and north (51 km (32 mi))[1]. Israel can only "blockade" it's borders. The border to Egypt is open, and that where the rockets come from. The strip was occupied too long, true (38 years), but once Israel pulled you would expect something better than a fundamentalist militant Islamic regim that is focused on terror rather then encouraging better life after the occupation. One can hardly call "free from occupation" the Palestinians who live under this Islamic brutal oppression. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
marshallp 14y ago
Totally agree. It's like medieval times. There's a pretty simple solution to the israel-palestine problem, offer either one of them a bribe to relocate to some empty part of Africa, or better yet, a patch of land in the desert in america or mexico. Put a fence and immigration controls around it, problem solved. The US could spend way less on this then the current military aid it does to isreal/arabia.
hindsightbias 14y ago
You are confusing a feature for a bug here. The objective requires an enemy.
philwelch 14y ago
> This is why the US military didn't release anything to do with Osama's assassination I distinctly remember footage, on al-Jazeera of all networks, of Americans outside the White House singing "na na na na hey hey hey goodbye". OK, nothing official, but it's there. But oddly, no reprisals.
stickfigure 14y ago
Wild guess: This is for domestic consumption, or consumption by western allies. The face you present to your own citizens is not the face you present to your enemy. Most Palestinians probably don't read english anyways.
- eoin_murphy 14y ago
  It may be for domestic consumption but there are plenty of Palestinians who do speak English and I'm pretty sure at least some of them are on Twitter. After all, if a Danish cartoon in a newspaper can set off riots in countries where it is not published then I'm sure public posts on a very popular website will get some coverage. Regardless of how the Palestinians react to it, it does just seem a very dehumanized way of approaching a conflict where actual real people are dying.
  - xenophanes 14y ago
    What dehumanizing? You give no examples. I go to the twitter feed and see tweets like this: > Over 50 rockets fired from #Gaza hit Israel since yesterday -- more than 800 rockets in 2012 alone. RT this. #Hamas > 1 million citizens in #Israel slept in bomb shelters tonight, barraged by dozens of rockets from #Gaza. pic.twitter.com/LqPfjaTj Seems like they are explaining things in simple terms so more humans can understand what's happening. I don't get how communicating so more humans will understand is dehumanizing.
    - eoin_murphy 14y ago
      It's dehumanizing because the targets are painted as one-dimensional figures to be "eliminated" not a people who have been killed. See paragraph 3 in the linked post I'm not saying they're not justified in doing what they're doing (that's a whole other 70+ year conversation) but this is the same as any other propaganda to 'other' the enemy.
  - cema 14y ago
    if a Danish cartoon in a newspaper can set off riots in countries where it is not published ...and several months after it has been published. What does it tell us? There are people who trigger the riots and decide when and how to influence the crowds. They, or their adjutants, are interested in using the "Danish newspapers"; not the people on the street. it does just seem a very dehumanized way of approaching a conflict where actual real people are dying There are people who need to be stopped, and getting them dead is sometimes the only way.
gyardley 14y ago
The Arab world is already awash in antisemitic propaganda. This Twitter account isn't going to move the needle there. No, this account is aimed at Americans. It shares short, simple, true messages: Hamas is a terrorist organization, Hamas launches hundreds of rockets into Israel, Israel is defending itself, and Israel is rather good at defending itself. The messages are designed to be shared with friends, in order to combat anti-Israeli attitudes. If you look at the IDF's blog (http://www.idfblog.com/ http://www.idfblog.com/), they've even added some game mechanics to the mix with their 'IDF Ranks'. Personally, I think it's brilliant.
- skrebbel 14y ago
  I doubt it'll work. Before this, I merely thought of the Israeli government as a bunch of nazis who believe that driving people out of their homes is god's work. Now, I also think they're barbarians.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    > Before this, I merely thought of the Israeli government as a bunch of nazis That's probably the least appropriate analogy ever. > who believe that driving people out of their homes is god's work Israel is actually a surprisingly secular country. If you don't know the most basic things about a country, maybe you shouldn't go around calling them nazis and barbarians. There's a word for those kind of attitudes.
    - skrebbel 14y ago
      Good point. In fact, I may very well not know the most basic things about this country. But then how do you explain the colonization programme? The only explanation I've been able to figure out is some zionist idea of a right to a patch of land; some race-based sense of superiority. Why else bulldozer villages far across the border that was last determined in a treaty? These are horrible crimes, committed willingly by a democratically elected government. I genuinely don't get it. But I do admit here that I've turned this not-understanding into choosing that it must be plain evil. Maybe it's something different. I'll not delete my original post to keep the thread understandable.
gingerbreadman 14y ago
Completely agree! I see no payout in poking the enemy, they are making it sound like a game and probably as a way to keep the youth attracted to the IDF.
abrown28 14y ago
I dont think this matters at all. When their provocation of Israely soldiers fails to give them what they want the fake it. Israel exists is all the provacation they need.
chacham15 14y ago
There are two sides to the coin. One that they take the media personally and another that it boosts morale for a people who are bombed and hurt mentally and physically. It is my feeling that the latter benefit will outweigh the earlier cost.
pinaceae 14y ago
you mean besides the 'iconic' picture of the war room with Obama and his top aides watching the raid? detailed accounts of what happened? pictures of the aftermath? an onslaught of books, movies, references? nope, nothing at all. but somehow everyone knows that seal team six is BADASS. pointing to the US, of all countries, as a counter example is a cognitive dissonance of such magnitude, it is baffling. greetings from Europe.
- confluence 14y ago
  Those were press releases - they happen everyday to report serious events. The White House pictures showed no glee and did not trivialise the situation - they were serious and released appropriately. No photos of Osama or his assassination were released. The pictures of the aftermath were from Pakistan. Books/Movies/References occur with any high impact event - you cannot stop them. Greetings from "get off your high horse", the real world is messy - hence you deal with the situations as best you can as they arise - but obviously Europe is doing just fine - so we should all probably listen to you. Oh wait - no you aren't.
  - pinaceae 14y ago
    so what's your beef with @IDFSpokesperson then? those are press releases, just in Twitter not through Reuters. @USArmy, @USFOR_A + @ISAF_RC_South + @ISAFmedia, @DeptofDefense, @StateDept, @NATO, http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/ http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/ ... all exist and post war content directly. the IDF is doing the same.
tomjen3 14y ago
What Obama did with Osama was a fucking scandal and should have cost him the presidency. The only way thing the muslim murders fear is humiliation. A quick martyrdom followed by a dignified burial at sea is not going to deter anybody. And they have all the reason they need to hate the US so long as there are soldiers on 'muslim' land. Just as they have plenty of things to hate Israel for, no matter what they are posting on twitter.
- cema 14y ago
  What Obama did with Osama was a fucking scandal and should have cost him the presidency. Why? The only way thing the muslim murders fear is humiliation. Why? A quick martyrdom followed by a dignified burial at sea is not going to deter anybody. Why? Look, I understand frustration and feelings, but we can talk rationally here.
wsc981 14y ago
I don't see any emotional tones attached to the Tweets, like you seem to suggest in your comment. Now you receive the news from tweets -from the moment it happens- instead of reading about it in tomorrow's paper. I guess Israel feels they need to be more in control of the news that will be send out, sending the news out themselves from the moment it happens is one way of achieving this. I see the need for this. Here in Europe many countries, organisations (like the EU) and media outlets seem to be more politically aligned with Arab nations compared to Israel. I believe this to be because the Arab nations are much more worth as trade partner to Europe compared to Israel and in the end money makes the world go round. Perhaps by sending these tweets Israel can gain more support from the (European) citizens.
kamaal 14y ago
>>Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence or do you want to win? Provoke your enemies to launch small time worthless rocket(Without much firepower or guidance system to cause organized damage) attacks at you. Use those attacks, now as a reason- Call it terrorism and then bomb them left right and center with F-16s and call it defending yourself. I am not supporting anybody here. But this is a valid defense strategy in a war. You can do anything in a war so as long you can justify it.
muuh-gnu 14y ago
> Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence Yes, in a "go on, make my day" kind of way, to justify even more future military action, since Israel is likely to win any future conflict. > This is why the US military didn't release anything US military's goal was not the same as Israel's goal. > or do you want to win? They want to win, but not as you think. Their definition of "win" is to ethnically clean Palestinians from biblical Israel, so yes, engaging them in more and more and more violence is the way to go. > You're just setting up the next wave of violence. And the next wave of violence will lead to the next way of Israel wins, and the next way of Israel wins will lead to the next way of settlements and land expropriation. Mission accomplished. The Israeli far right loves it when a plan comes together. > It's not a fucking game. Your problem is that you dont even for a second consider the possibility that Israel is the bad guy in this game, i.e. the Nazis, so youre all the time "wrong move, wrong move, WTF are they doing?!?!". From a bully's point of view, Israels tactics fully make sense. You start a conflict and then you win and you take your victims toys and chase him from the playground.
Shorel 14y ago
I'm trying to be objective and not emotionally involved about this issue. This is what I understand: historically you don't defeat and dominate your enemy and after some generations all is good. Historically you killed everyone to ensure no new generations would come back to fight back. This means that historically all children were murdered too. Total eradication of entire civilizations. The modern western warfare now respects children and woman. This is a HUGE change, and the consequences are still being discovered. Now everything is a public relations issue. I don't agree or disagree with what's happening, I simply watch in fascination as an external unrelated entity.

davidkatz 14y ago

I agree that the tone is childish and unnecessary, but I doubt it makes much of a difference. Large organisations are still figuring out how to use social media, but in principle publishing an operation on twitter is no different than putting our a press release or sending someone for an interview at a major TV channel. Same goes for making videos available on YouTube, I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, since I don't watch TV I would have never seen this video if it wasn't made available online.

confluence 14y ago
Reminds me of a key tenet I heard about PR is: It's not what you say, but how you say it. A dry press release, no image data, and a dry political report from the relevant spokesperson is perfect for this - there's nothing to latch onto - if you just list the facts, and get it over with. It's what Obama did after Osama was assassinated, and it worked well - there was nothing offensive to latch on to, nothing to point to, and say "Look, that's what you are fighting for!".

meepmorp 14y ago

I agree in principle, but honestly this is pretty low on the list of things that Israel does that helps build the next wave of Palestinian militants. The blockade of the Gaza Strip, for example - whatever you think of its merits - has had a fairly harsh effect on average people living there, and has been a effective tool in keeping the support for Hamas high. It's let up somewhat recently, though it'll be interesting to see what happens with the ongoing political turmoil in Egypt.

DodgyEggplant 14y ago
"blockade of the Gaza Strip" Gaza strip borders Egypt on the southwest (11 km) and Israel on the east and north (51 km (32 mi))[1]. Israel can only "blockade" it's borders. The border to Egypt is open, and that where the rockets come from. The strip was occupied too long, true (38 years), but once Israel pulled you would expect something better than a fundamentalist militant Islamic regim that is focused on terror rather then encouraging better life after the occupation. One can hardly call "free from occupation" the Palestinians who live under this Islamic brutal oppression. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

marshallp 14y ago

Totally agree. It's like medieval times. There's a pretty simple solution to the israel-palestine problem, offer either one of them a bribe to relocate to some empty part of Africa, or better yet, a patch of land in the desert in america or mexico. Put a fence and immigration controls around it, problem solved. The US could spend way less on this then the current military aid it does to isreal/arabia.

hindsightbias 14y ago

You are confusing a feature for a bug here. The objective requires an enemy.

philwelch 14y ago

> This is why the US military didn't release anything to do with Osama's assassination I distinctly remember footage, on al-Jazeera of all networks, of Americans outside the White House singing "na na na na hey hey hey goodbye". OK, nothing official, but it's there. But oddly, no reprisals.

stickfigure 14y ago

Wild guess: This is for domestic consumption, or consumption by western allies. The face you present to your own citizens is not the face you present to your enemy. Most Palestinians probably don't read english anyways.

eoin_murphy 14y ago
It may be for domestic consumption but there are plenty of Palestinians who do speak English and I'm pretty sure at least some of them are on Twitter. After all, if a Danish cartoon in a newspaper can set off riots in countries where it is not published then I'm sure public posts on a very popular website will get some coverage. Regardless of how the Palestinians react to it, it does just seem a very dehumanized way of approaching a conflict where actual real people are dying.
- xenophanes 14y ago
  What dehumanizing? You give no examples. I go to the twitter feed and see tweets like this: > Over 50 rockets fired from #Gaza hit Israel since yesterday -- more than 800 rockets in 2012 alone. RT this. #Hamas > 1 million citizens in #Israel slept in bomb shelters tonight, barraged by dozens of rockets from #Gaza. pic.twitter.com/LqPfjaTj Seems like they are explaining things in simple terms so more humans can understand what's happening. I don't get how communicating so more humans will understand is dehumanizing.
  - eoin_murphy 14y ago
    It's dehumanizing because the targets are painted as one-dimensional figures to be "eliminated" not a people who have been killed. See paragraph 3 in the linked post I'm not saying they're not justified in doing what they're doing (that's a whole other 70+ year conversation) but this is the same as any other propaganda to 'other' the enemy.
- cema 14y ago
  if a Danish cartoon in a newspaper can set off riots in countries where it is not published ...and several months after it has been published. What does it tell us? There are people who trigger the riots and decide when and how to influence the crowds. They, or their adjutants, are interested in using the "Danish newspapers"; not the people on the street. it does just seem a very dehumanized way of approaching a conflict where actual real people are dying There are people who need to be stopped, and getting them dead is sometimes the only way.

gyardley 14y ago

The Arab world is already awash in antisemitic propaganda. This Twitter account isn't going to move the needle there. No, this account is aimed at Americans. It shares short, simple, true messages: Hamas is a terrorist organization, Hamas launches hundreds of rockets into Israel, Israel is defending itself, and Israel is rather good at defending itself. The messages are designed to be shared with friends, in order to combat anti-Israeli attitudes. If you look at the IDF's blog (http://www.idfblog.com/ http://www.idfblog.com/), they've even added some game mechanics to the mix with their 'IDF Ranks'. Personally, I think it's brilliant.

skrebbel 14y ago
I doubt it'll work. Before this, I merely thought of the Israeli government as a bunch of nazis who believe that driving people out of their homes is god's work. Now, I also think they're barbarians.
- philwelch 14y ago
  > Before this, I merely thought of the Israeli government as a bunch of nazis That's probably the least appropriate analogy ever. > who believe that driving people out of their homes is god's work Israel is actually a surprisingly secular country. If you don't know the most basic things about a country, maybe you shouldn't go around calling them nazis and barbarians. There's a word for those kind of attitudes.
  - skrebbel 14y ago
    Good point. In fact, I may very well not know the most basic things about this country. But then how do you explain the colonization programme? The only explanation I've been able to figure out is some zionist idea of a right to a patch of land; some race-based sense of superiority. Why else bulldozer villages far across the border that was last determined in a treaty? These are horrible crimes, committed willingly by a democratically elected government. I genuinely don't get it. But I do admit here that I've turned this not-understanding into choosing that it must be plain evil. Maybe it's something different. I'll not delete my original post to keep the thread understandable.

gingerbreadman 14y ago

Completely agree! I see no payout in poking the enemy, they are making it sound like a game and probably as a way to keep the youth attracted to the IDF.

abrown28 14y ago

I dont think this matters at all. When their provocation of Israely soldiers fails to give them what they want the fake it. Israel exists is all the provacation they need.

chacham15 14y ago

There are two sides to the coin. One that they take the media personally and another that it boosts morale for a people who are bombed and hurt mentally and physically. It is my feeling that the latter benefit will outweigh the earlier cost.

pinaceae 14y ago

you mean besides the 'iconic' picture of the war room with Obama and his top aides watching the raid? detailed accounts of what happened? pictures of the aftermath? an onslaught of books, movies, references? nope, nothing at all. but somehow everyone knows that seal team six is BADASS. pointing to the US, of all countries, as a counter example is a cognitive dissonance of such magnitude, it is baffling. greetings from Europe.

confluence 14y ago
Those were press releases - they happen everyday to report serious events. The White House pictures showed no glee and did not trivialise the situation - they were serious and released appropriately. No photos of Osama or his assassination were released. The pictures of the aftermath were from Pakistan. Books/Movies/References occur with any high impact event - you cannot stop them. Greetings from "get off your high horse", the real world is messy - hence you deal with the situations as best you can as they arise - but obviously Europe is doing just fine - so we should all probably listen to you. Oh wait - no you aren't.
- pinaceae 14y ago
  so what's your beef with @IDFSpokesperson then? those are press releases, just in Twitter not through Reuters. @USArmy, @USFOR_A + @ISAF_RC_South + @ISAFmedia, @DeptofDefense, @StateDept, @NATO, http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/ http://www.pentagonchannel.mil/ ... all exist and post war content directly. the IDF is doing the same.

tomjen3 14y ago

What Obama did with Osama was a fucking scandal and should have cost him the presidency. The only way thing the muslim murders fear is humiliation. A quick martyrdom followed by a dignified burial at sea is not going to deter anybody. And they have all the reason they need to hate the US so long as there are soldiers on 'muslim' land. Just as they have plenty of things to hate Israel for, no matter what they are posting on twitter.

cema 14y ago
What Obama did with Osama was a fucking scandal and should have cost him the presidency. Why? The only way thing the muslim murders fear is humiliation. Why? A quick martyrdom followed by a dignified burial at sea is not going to deter anybody. Why? Look, I understand frustration and feelings, but we can talk rationally here.

wsc981 14y ago

I don't see any emotional tones attached to the Tweets, like you seem to suggest in your comment. Now you receive the news from tweets -from the moment it happens- instead of reading about it in tomorrow's paper. I guess Israel feels they need to be more in control of the news that will be send out, sending the news out themselves from the moment it happens is one way of achieving this. I see the need for this. Here in Europe many countries, organisations (like the EU) and media outlets seem to be more politically aligned with Arab nations compared to Israel. I believe this to be because the Arab nations are much more worth as trade partner to Europe compared to Israel and in the end money makes the world go round. Perhaps by sending these tweets Israel can gain more support from the (European) citizens.

kamaal 14y ago

>>Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence or do you want to win? Provoke your enemies to launch small time worthless rocket(Without much firepower or guidance system to cause organized damage) attacks at you. Use those attacks, now as a reason- Call it terrorism and then bomb them left right and center with F-16s and call it defending yourself. I am not supporting anybody here. But this is a valid defense strategy in a war. You can do anything in a war so as long you can justify it.

muuh-gnu 14y ago

> Do you want to enrage your enemy into more violence Yes, in a "go on, make my day" kind of way, to justify even more future military action, since Israel is likely to win any future conflict. > This is why the US military didn't release anything US military's goal was not the same as Israel's goal. > or do you want to win? They want to win, but not as you think. Their definition of "win" is to ethnically clean Palestinians from biblical Israel, so yes, engaging them in more and more and more violence is the way to go. > You're just setting up the next wave of violence. And the next wave of violence will lead to the next way of Israel wins, and the next way of Israel wins will lead to the next way of settlements and land expropriation. Mission accomplished. The Israeli far right loves it when a plan comes together. > It's not a fucking game. Your problem is that you dont even for a second consider the possibility that Israel is the bad guy in this game, i.e. the Nazis, so youre all the time "wrong move, wrong move, WTF are they doing?!?!". From a bully's point of view, Israels tactics fully make sense. You start a conflict and then you win and you take your victims toys and chase him from the playground.

Shorel 14y ago

I'm trying to be objective and not emotionally involved about this issue. This is what I understand: historically you don't defeat and dominate your enemy and after some generations all is good. Historically you killed everyone to ensure no new generations would come back to fight back. This means that historically all children were murdered too. Total eradication of entire civilizations. The modern western warfare now respects children and woman. This is a HUGE change, and the consequences are still being discovered. Now everything is a public relations issue. I don't agree or disagree with what's happening, I simply watch in fascination as an external unrelated entity.