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Are you claiming that major Chinese cloud providers like Tencent and Alibaba are pilfering trade secrets from their customers' data? To my knowledge, there's no

Are you claiming that major Chinese cloud providers like Tencent and Alibaba are pilfering trade secrets from their customers' data? To my knowledge, there's no evidence for that whatsoever. If it were true and came out, it would instantly tank their cloud businesses (which is why they don't do it, and why AWS, Azure, etc. also don't do it). If it were to happen, Chinese law does offer recourse, including to foreign firms. It's not as if China doesn't have IP law. It has actually made a major effort over the last 10+ years to set up specialized courts just to deal with IP disputes, and I think foreign firms have a fairly good track record of winning cases. > No one really believes at face value This says a lot more about the prejudices and stereotypes in the West about China than it does about China itself.

Zetaphor 6mo ago
In every one of these threads for a new Chinese open weights model, it's always the same tired discussion of how this is all actually a psyop by the Chinese government to undermine US interests and it can't answer questions about Tienanmen Square. Meanwhile I'm over here solving real world business problems with a model that I can securely run on-prem and not pay out the nose for cloud GPU inference. And then after work I use that same model to power my personal experiments and hobby projects. There are no Chinese labs with different financial and political motivations, there's only "China" the monolith. The last thread for Qwen's new hosted model was full of folks talking about how "China" is no longer releasing open weights models, when the next day Moonshot AI releases Kimi 2.6. A few days later and here's Qwen again with another open release. For some reason this country gets what I assume are otherwise smart Americans to just completely shut off their brains and start repeating rhetoric.
- andriy_koval 6mo ago
  > The last thread for Qwen's new hosted model was full of folks talking about how "China" is no longer releasing open weights models, when the next day Moonshot AI releases Kimi 2.6. A few days later and here's Qwen again with another open release. looks like you declared win argument, because you now see that 2.6 was released, but at that time your opponents argument stand. Also, you can't predict if Chinese labs will continue releasing open frontier models. Looks like Kimi is the only one left, Qwen is much smaller model.
  - Zetaphor 6mo ago
    > looks like you declared win argument, because you now see that 2.6 was released, but at that time your opponents argument stand. Their argument was based entirely on speculation, but stated as a matter of fact, despite Alibaba making very clear statements that they were going to continue releasing open models. And the core of my argument is that they were conflating a single company with the motivations of multiple companies in a country. Nobody talks about US companies by saying "The Americans are going to do X", they say "OpenAI/Anthropic/Google is going to do X".

Zetaphor 6mo ago

In every one of these threads for a new Chinese open weights model, it's always the same tired discussion of how this is all actually a psyop by the Chinese government to undermine US interests and it can't answer questions about Tienanmen Square. Meanwhile I'm over here solving real world business problems with a model that I can securely run on-prem and not pay out the nose for cloud GPU inference. And then after work I use that same model to power my personal experiments and hobby projects. There are no Chinese labs with different financial and political motivations, there's only "China" the monolith. The last thread for Qwen's new hosted model was full of folks talking about how "China" is no longer releasing open weights models, when the next day Moonshot AI releases Kimi 2.6. A few days later and here's Qwen again with another open release. For some reason this country gets what I assume are otherwise smart Americans to just completely shut off their brains and start repeating rhetoric.

andriy_koval 6mo ago
> The last thread for Qwen's new hosted model was full of folks talking about how "China" is no longer releasing open weights models, when the next day Moonshot AI releases Kimi 2.6. A few days later and here's Qwen again with another open release. looks like you declared win argument, because you now see that 2.6 was released, but at that time your opponents argument stand. Also, you can't predict if Chinese labs will continue releasing open frontier models. Looks like Kimi is the only one left, Qwen is much smaller model.
- Zetaphor 6mo ago
  > looks like you declared win argument, because you now see that 2.6 was released, but at that time your opponents argument stand. Their argument was based entirely on speculation, but stated as a matter of fact, despite Alibaba making very clear statements that they were going to continue releasing open models. And the core of my argument is that they were conflating a single company with the motivations of multiple companies in a country. Nobody talks about US companies by saying "The Americans are going to do X", they say "OpenAI/Anthropic/Google is going to do X".