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This makes me wonder: Cellebrite makes tools for law enforcement to break into iPhones, likely exploiting weaknesses/vulnerabilities. Does Apple buy Cellebrite’

This makes me wonder: Cellebrite makes tools for law enforcement to break into iPhones, likely exploiting weaknesses/vulnerabilities. Does Apple buy Cellebrite’s tools and reverse engineer them? Or would they not have a way of acquiring them legally?

bilbo0s 6mo ago
I bet Apple has access to Mythos now. Not saying they should use it to reverse engineer hacking tools. Just saying they have access to Mythos now.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- klausa 6mo ago
  You bet that the company that was prominently mentioned as a parter in the announcement for a thing, has access to that thing? Wow, such a risky bet, I'm not sure it'll pay off.
saagarjha 6mo ago
Cellebrite sells their lower-level devices to Apple directly for things like data transfer at Apple Stores. The ones above that are unlikely to be sold to Apple.
- tredre3 6mo ago
  > Cellebrite sells their lower-level devices to Apple directly for things like data transfer at Apple Stores. Please substantiate that claim. Why would Apple need mystical third party devices to transfer data? They've designed both the user devices and the software, and they're both capable of exchanging data, and I'm sure Apple can do even more once they put the devices in diagnostic mode. What am I missing? What is Cellebrite providing here?
  - avianlyric 6mo ago
    Because it’s a pain in the arse to design, manufacture and build a specialist device just for use in your stores. I’m sure Apple could do everything that box does and more. But why bother designing, building and manufacturing your own specialist device when someone else already sells a perfectly good tool that does the job. Don’t forget this is for use in a retail store by people who will have been given 5mins training on how to use the device. You want something that just requires a person to plug two phones in and hit a big “go” button. And it needs to work 99% of the time with zero messing around.
    - dewey 6mo ago
      They built specialized tools to update iOS through the cardboard box without opening it before it goes on sale. I’m sure they can build something with a big “go” button if it’s important.
      - RulerOf 6mo ago
        They did?
        jackvalentine 6mo ago
        Yes! https://www.macworld.com/article/2107557/iphone-ios-update-in-the-box-retail-stores.html https://www.macworld.com/article/2107557/iphone-ios-update-i... https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/apples-in-box-device-update-in-stores-really-works/39310 https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/apples-in-box-device-update...
        RulerOf 6mo ago
        That is absolutely fascinating. I'm gonna have to pay attention the next time I open an iPhone box. I'd bet they're sitting on their faces in the box. I really wonder how the wireless data transfer works.
      - Petersipoi 6mo ago
- jrflowers 6mo ago
  Do you have a link that talks about this in more detail?
  - saagarjha 6mo ago
    Sure: https://www.zdnet.com/article/more-evidence-that-apples-morphing-into-a-phone-company/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/more-evidence-that-apples-morp.... Also you can just ask people who've worked in the stores: https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/sodt49/most_us_cabinet_departments_have_bought/hw9o7ds/ https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/sodt49/most_us_cab...
    - jrflowers 6mo ago
      That is an article from 2010, the same year that “The US military buys PS3s for compute” was a true statement. https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomput... It’s like saying “Single Ladies” by Beyoncé is topping the charts. Do you have a link that talks about Apple buying cellebrite devices presently?
      - saagarjha 6mo ago
        No, I don't think they are using Cellebrite devices currently.
kstrauser 6mo ago
I can’t imagine a scenario where Apple couldn’t legally buy them on the grey market. I can imagine it being illegal to sell them, like contractual restrictions blocking purchasers from reselling them. But short of the tools being a munition or controlled substance, you can buy whatever you want.

bilbo0s 6mo ago

I bet Apple has access to Mythos now. Not saying they should use it to reverse engineer hacking tools. Just saying they have access to Mythos now.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
klausa 6mo ago
You bet that the company that was prominently mentioned as a parter in the announcement for a thing, has access to that thing? Wow, such a risky bet, I'm not sure it'll pay off.

saagarjha 6mo ago

Cellebrite sells their lower-level devices to Apple directly for things like data transfer at Apple Stores. The ones above that are unlikely to be sold to Apple.

tredre3 6mo ago
> Cellebrite sells their lower-level devices to Apple directly for things like data transfer at Apple Stores. Please substantiate that claim. Why would Apple need mystical third party devices to transfer data? They've designed both the user devices and the software, and they're both capable of exchanging data, and I'm sure Apple can do even more once they put the devices in diagnostic mode. What am I missing? What is Cellebrite providing here?
- avianlyric 6mo ago
  Because it’s a pain in the arse to design, manufacture and build a specialist device just for use in your stores. I’m sure Apple could do everything that box does and more. But why bother designing, building and manufacturing your own specialist device when someone else already sells a perfectly good tool that does the job. Don’t forget this is for use in a retail store by people who will have been given 5mins training on how to use the device. You want something that just requires a person to plug two phones in and hit a big “go” button. And it needs to work 99% of the time with zero messing around.
  - dewey 6mo ago
    They built specialized tools to update iOS through the cardboard box without opening it before it goes on sale. I’m sure they can build something with a big “go” button if it’s important.
    - RulerOf 6mo ago
      They did?
      - jackvalentine 6mo ago
        Yes! https://www.macworld.com/article/2107557/iphone-ios-update-in-the-box-retail-stores.html https://www.macworld.com/article/2107557/iphone-ios-update-i... https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/apples-in-box-device-update-in-stores-really-works/39310 https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/apples-in-box-device-update...
        RulerOf 6mo ago
        That is absolutely fascinating. I'm gonna have to pay attention the next time I open an iPhone box. I'd bet they're sitting on their faces in the box. I really wonder how the wireless data transfer works.
    - Petersipoi 6mo ago
jrflowers 6mo ago
Do you have a link that talks about this in more detail?
- saagarjha 6mo ago
  Sure: https://www.zdnet.com/article/more-evidence-that-apples-morphing-into-a-phone-company/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/more-evidence-that-apples-morp.... Also you can just ask people who've worked in the stores: https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/sodt49/most_us_cabinet_departments_have_bought/hw9o7ds/ https://old.reddit.com/r/gadgets/comments/sodt49/most_us_cab...
  - jrflowers 6mo ago
    That is an article from 2010, the same year that “The US military buys PS3s for compute” was a true statement. https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomputer.html https://phys.org/news/2010-12-air-playstation-3s-supercomput... It’s like saying “Single Ladies” by Beyoncé is topping the charts. Do you have a link that talks about Apple buying cellebrite devices presently?
    - saagarjha 6mo ago
      No, I don't think they are using Cellebrite devices currently.

kstrauser 6mo ago

I can’t imagine a scenario where Apple couldn’t legally buy them on the grey market. I can imagine it being illegal to sell them, like contractual restrictions blocking purchasers from reselling them. But short of the tools being a munition or controlled substance, you can buy whatever you want.