4 ms·

"do you think the CCP leaders are better?" Yes, unambiguously. They appear to be aggressively investing in collaborative foreign policy projects globally, have

"do you think the CCP leaders are better?" Yes, unambiguously. They appear to be aggressively investing in collaborative foreign policy projects globally, have a stellar track record when it comes to not starting random wars around the world, and their economic planning and engagement with decarbonization efforts massively outshine the US.

zdragnar 6mo ago
You just need to stomach slavery, violent repression of political dissidents, live organ harvesting and a handful of other unpleasantries.
- vondur 6mo ago
  Yeah, people here are insane to believe the CCP is some kind of technocratic benevolent autocracy.
  - asdfman123 6mo ago
    It helps that they spend billions to manipulate public perception on forums like this one
  - forgetfreeman 6mo ago
    The same can be said without irony about the current administration in the US so there is that. Anyway it's perfectly reasonable to point out the ways in which the CCP is outperforming western governments. If that bothers you then I'd say you may want to contact your representatives.
- otterley 6mo ago
  I'm not an apologist for Chinese repression, but America still has or once had slavery, child labor, torture (Abu Ghraib), patent medicine and unsafe food, racist policies that prevent wealth accumulation (redlining), mass pollution, racism and mistrust of non-white-skinned people, a terrible healthcare system for most, and still debates over the utility of vaccines, has a poor K-12 education outcome, refuses to severely punish notorious white-collar criminals and make their victims whole, immunizes its law enforcement from prosecution when it violates others' civil rights, and vests the President with absolute immunity or a presumption of immunity in exercising its powers. And those are just the embarrassments and atrocities I can think of right now. We still have a lot to answer for.
  - asdfman123 6mo ago
    If it's already changed don't you think it's answered for? What level of performative apologetics will make it better in your estimation?
    - otterley 6mo ago
      I don't want performative apologetics; I want the still-existing problems to be remediated. I also want my fellow Americans not to deny our history and present reality. Recognition and apology are not identical.
      - asdfman123 6mo ago
        You seem to be not distinguishing things that have happened hundreds of years ago with things that are present, exaggerating the scale of things that are still present, and not acknowledging that those things are widely recognized and even taught in American history classes.
        otterley 6mo ago
        I made clear that some of these were past (and they reverberate still today), and some are present: "America still has or once had" > exaggerating the scale of things that are still present What am I exaggerating, exactly? https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic... https://mappingpoliceviolence.org https://mappingpoliceviolence.org https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality... https://www.npr.org/2026/03/14/nx-s1-5734051/measles-outbreak-parents-south-carolina-vaccines https://www.npr.org/2026/03/14/nx-s1-5734051/measles-outbrea... > not acknowledging that those things are widely recognized and even taught in American history classes In some states, yes. In others, the content is being censored (another embarrassment for America, which once censored the teaching of evolution!). See, e.g.: https://pen.org/educational-censorship/index-of-educational-gag-orders/ https://pen.org/educational-censorship/index-of-educational-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_school_curricula_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_school_curricula... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-look-at-whats-behind-the-efforts-to-reshape-how-american-history-is-taught https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-look-at-whats-behind-the...
pjc50 6mo ago
There's an invisible tradeoff here. The US has an extremely expansive view of free speech, so you get a very noisy picture of its politics, half of which is Infowars-level insane lies. This is a large cause of its problems. China absolutely does not have free media, and if it did it wouldn't publish primarily in English, so its negatives are very hard to see. Even for Chinese speakers.

zdragnar 6mo ago

You just need to stomach slavery, violent repression of political dissidents, live organ harvesting and a handful of other unpleasantries.

vondur 6mo ago
Yeah, people here are insane to believe the CCP is some kind of technocratic benevolent autocracy.
- asdfman123 6mo ago
  It helps that they spend billions to manipulate public perception on forums like this one
- forgetfreeman 6mo ago
  The same can be said without irony about the current administration in the US so there is that. Anyway it's perfectly reasonable to point out the ways in which the CCP is outperforming western governments. If that bothers you then I'd say you may want to contact your representatives.
otterley 6mo ago
I'm not an apologist for Chinese repression, but America still has or once had slavery, child labor, torture (Abu Ghraib), patent medicine and unsafe food, racist policies that prevent wealth accumulation (redlining), mass pollution, racism and mistrust of non-white-skinned people, a terrible healthcare system for most, and still debates over the utility of vaccines, has a poor K-12 education outcome, refuses to severely punish notorious white-collar criminals and make their victims whole, immunizes its law enforcement from prosecution when it violates others' civil rights, and vests the President with absolute immunity or a presumption of immunity in exercising its powers. And those are just the embarrassments and atrocities I can think of right now. We still have a lot to answer for.
- asdfman123 6mo ago
  If it's already changed don't you think it's answered for? What level of performative apologetics will make it better in your estimation?
  - otterley 6mo ago
    I don't want performative apologetics; I want the still-existing problems to be remediated. I also want my fellow Americans not to deny our history and present reality. Recognition and apology are not identical.
    - asdfman123 6mo ago
      You seem to be not distinguishing things that have happened hundreds of years ago with things that are present, exaggerating the scale of things that are still present, and not acknowledging that those things are widely recognized and even taught in American history classes.
      - otterley 6mo ago
        I made clear that some of these were past (and they reverberate still today), and some are present: "America still has or once had" > exaggerating the scale of things that are still present What am I exaggerating, exactly? https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/polic... https://mappingpoliceviolence.org https://mappingpoliceviolence.org https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality... https://www.npr.org/2026/03/14/nx-s1-5734051/measles-outbreak-parents-south-carolina-vaccines https://www.npr.org/2026/03/14/nx-s1-5734051/measles-outbrea... > not acknowledging that those things are widely recognized and even taught in American history classes In some states, yes. In others, the content is being censored (another embarrassment for America, which once censored the teaching of evolution!). See, e.g.: https://pen.org/educational-censorship/index-of-educational-gag-orders/ https://pen.org/educational-censorship/index-of-educational-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_school_curricula_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_school_curricula... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-look-at-whats-behind-the-efforts-to-reshape-how-american-history-is-taught https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-look-at-whats-behind-the...

pjc50 6mo ago

There's an invisible tradeoff here. The US has an extremely expansive view of free speech, so you get a very noisy picture of its politics, half of which is Infowars-level insane lies. This is a large cause of its problems. China absolutely does not have free media, and if it did it wouldn't publish primarily in English, so its negatives are very hard to see. Even for Chinese speakers.