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European banks were leveraged MORE then US banks. Think of Iceland for Marx and Engles' sake! Greece, Ireland, the UK, etc. I am not sure what you mean by th

European banks were leveraged MORE then US banks. Think of Iceland for Marx and Engles' sake! Greece, Ireland, the UK, etc. I am not sure what you mean by third way socialism, perhaps you mean the welfare states of western Europe? Those do work in a particular way that many people prefer. Many others prefer the more free market of the states. I know many west European immigrants that have come to the US to escape the welfare state, and I ain't talking bankers. More like engineers, scientists and doctors, and believe me Europeans know the social state costs us some of our best. As an east European immigrant I can tell you, that the communists switched their story AFTER to soviet collapse. Libertarians like Milton Freedman on the other hand, have been saying the US is farm from true free markets for a LOOOONG time.

electromagnetic 18y ago
I'll vouch for you. I've moved from the UK to Canada (both countries with welfare and universal health care) and I'll never step foot on US soil without travel insurance with an extradition clause, because the US system of health care disgusts me. I know many people who have moved from the US into welfare countries in Europe. However, I also know many people who have moved out of Europe into the US. Welfare systems get you good quality for the money, however if you've got the money to spend more (like your example, engineers, scientists and especially doctors) then you're going to want the best quality money pays for. I think the unfortunate situation is that most welfare countries don't have a system far reaching enough to provide everything people want. I mean the French system is impressive when it comes to child care. I mean you can get daycare for $1 a day. However, from people I talk to there, their health care is rather lax compared to UK standards. However in the UK even the poor can get phenomenal health care, like triple-bypass surgeries, however god forbid you have a child and want to work! Again what happens when you have a child with disabilities? Well you're royally fucked, you're treated like it's your own fault despite the government wanting you to have children. I see the benefit of both systems, however personally I like the universal health care. It's rather ironic that I've never stepped foot inside a hospital (I lie, but it was never for me. Once visiting my mum at work - nurse - and the other visiting my dad after he had kidney stones removed) and I barely visited my doctor. In fact I don't even get sick often, I had the flu a few weeks ago, my wife was sleeping like 20 hours a day, I was wide awake the entire time and occasionally had to blow my nose. However, I'd bet $50,000 that if I ever moved to the US the day I arrived I'd be diagnosed with a prostate tumor the size of a grapefruit, or some incurable disease or something. I mean I didn't even need braces as a kid, I'm either going to die the healthiest person on the planet or my luck's going to turn so bad so fast I'll be hit by a fragment of a meteorite or something equally absurd.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  That's true, shortly off the plane realizing exactly what health care is available for the poor in the US, gave me a decidedly uneasy feeling. I won't even attempt to defend the US health care system. Suffice it to say, a much longer topic is the set of laws and regulations that maximize freedom, prosperity AND a high minimum of social services for everyone.
ahoyhere 18y ago
Every doctor I have been to in Austria has been superior to every doctor I have been to in the USA, with the exception of my ENT surgeon, who was a middle eastern immigrant to the US. (He was a top doctor in his field, taught at JHU, invented stuff, etc.) The doctors in Austria take more time with you, they listen to you better, they come up with more novel solutions, and they seem to know more about other medical fields. And here's why this is true: a) free medical education. Yes, FREE. That means people who want to be doctors, can; the only requirement is that they can hold their own academically. That also means that when they complete their education, they are not saddled under $300k+ of debt, and thus are not having to hustle and scrimp for money. b) a culture of service. Yes, really. Austria has a huge number of social workers -- nice ones, too -- and unlike in the US, there's a very solid mixture of men vs women. People can actually earn a decent living (thanks to socialism) helping other people. c) a very different situation with insurance (everybody has it) and lawsuits (uncommon). All of this combines to having a huge number of women doctors, and a huge number of doctors who are in it for passion and not for money, and doctors who are not afraid to just give you an atypical solution or who have to worry all the time whether the patient's insurance will pay for it. And amazingly, it's cheaper than in the US sometimes, even if you pay out of pocket. I saw a top-rated dentist, got a 360 degree x-ray, he himself poked around in my mouth and proscribed an antibiotic -- and with the exchange rate, that whole thing cost me $180 US. Ha! It's simply awesome.

electromagnetic 18y ago

I'll vouch for you. I've moved from the UK to Canada (both countries with welfare and universal health care) and I'll never step foot on US soil without travel insurance with an extradition clause, because the US system of health care disgusts me. I know many people who have moved from the US into welfare countries in Europe. However, I also know many people who have moved out of Europe into the US. Welfare systems get you good quality for the money, however if you've got the money to spend more (like your example, engineers, scientists and especially doctors) then you're going to want the best quality money pays for. I think the unfortunate situation is that most welfare countries don't have a system far reaching enough to provide everything people want. I mean the French system is impressive when it comes to child care. I mean you can get daycare for $1 a day. However, from people I talk to there, their health care is rather lax compared to UK standards. However in the UK even the poor can get phenomenal health care, like triple-bypass surgeries, however god forbid you have a child and want to work! Again what happens when you have a child with disabilities? Well you're royally fucked, you're treated like it's your own fault despite the government wanting you to have children. I see the benefit of both systems, however personally I like the universal health care. It's rather ironic that I've never stepped foot inside a hospital (I lie, but it was never for me. Once visiting my mum at work - nurse - and the other visiting my dad after he had kidney stones removed) and I barely visited my doctor. In fact I don't even get sick often, I had the flu a few weeks ago, my wife was sleeping like 20 hours a day, I was wide awake the entire time and occasionally had to blow my nose. However, I'd bet $50,000 that if I ever moved to the US the day I arrived I'd be diagnosed with a prostate tumor the size of a grapefruit, or some incurable disease or something. I mean I didn't even need braces as a kid, I'm either going to die the healthiest person on the planet or my luck's going to turn so bad so fast I'll be hit by a fragment of a meteorite or something equally absurd.

biohacker42 18y ago
That's true, shortly off the plane realizing exactly what health care is available for the poor in the US, gave me a decidedly uneasy feeling. I won't even attempt to defend the US health care system. Suffice it to say, a much longer topic is the set of laws and regulations that maximize freedom, prosperity AND a high minimum of social services for everyone.

ahoyhere 18y ago

Every doctor I have been to in Austria has been superior to every doctor I have been to in the USA, with the exception of my ENT surgeon, who was a middle eastern immigrant to the US. (He was a top doctor in his field, taught at JHU, invented stuff, etc.) The doctors in Austria take more time with you, they listen to you better, they come up with more novel solutions, and they seem to know more about other medical fields. And here's why this is true: a) free medical education. Yes, FREE. That means people who want to be doctors, can; the only requirement is that they can hold their own academically. That also means that when they complete their education, they are not saddled under $300k+ of debt, and thus are not having to hustle and scrimp for money. b) a culture of service. Yes, really. Austria has a huge number of social workers -- nice ones, too -- and unlike in the US, there's a very solid mixture of men vs women. People can actually earn a decent living (thanks to socialism) helping other people. c) a very different situation with insurance (everybody has it) and lawsuits (uncommon). All of this combines to having a huge number of women doctors, and a huge number of doctors who are in it for passion and not for money, and doctors who are not afraid to just give you an atypical solution or who have to worry all the time whether the patient's insurance will pay for it. And amazingly, it's cheaper than in the US sometimes, even if you pay out of pocket. I saw a top-rated dentist, got a 360 degree x-ray, he himself poked around in my mouth and proscribed an antibiotic -- and with the exchange rate, that whole thing cost me $180 US. Ha! It's simply awesome.