6 ms·

look how cheap now, it's crazy https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809986804138.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809986804138.html I'm old enough to rem

by ck2 6mo ago

look how cheap now, it's crazy https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809986804138.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809986804138.html I'm old enough to remember Carter putting them on WhiteHouse roof and they were thousands of dollars then (and less efficient)

saidinesh5 6mo ago
The link isn't available here. Can you share the specs and price of that panel?
- cma 6mo ago
  $37.21 for a 100 watt panel with free shipping. I'm not sure if that is before or after 50% tariffs and/or the 10% "fentanyl" extra tariff that was announced a few days after Ross Ulbricht's pardon for running the world's largest opiates-by-mail operation.
  - dhosek 6mo ago
    Heck even if that’s pre-tariff it’s cheap enough that it could be an impulse buy.
  - horsawlarway 6mo ago
    You can buy brand new in bulk in the US for roughly the same $/watt. I bought 30 375w Canadian Solar panels 2 years ago and paid $0.41/watt (~$4536 for the whole package) My mounting equipment actually cost more than the panels (~$4600). And the permitting process cost nearly as much as the panels (permit cost + architectural drawing + structural engineer stamp + electrician stamp). It's crazy how cheap solar panels themselves are getting. They're going to win on the energy front - period. Especially now that battery tech actually seems to be moving again. I vividly remember one of my robotics professors in undergrad ranting about how frustrated he was with battery tech in ~2007, but LFP and sodium batteries are both pretty huge steps forward.
    - tribaal 6mo ago
      Another data point: my entire system in Switzerland cost me 1.3CHF/Watt including a 20kWh battery and 5000 CHF of scaffolding costs (needed because of our local OSHA equivalent laws when installing panels on a tilted roof). It has become ridiculously cheap indeed.
      - engineer_22 6mo ago
        What's the cost of power in Confoederatio Helvetica?
        rayhaanj 6mo ago
        Around 30 centiCHFs per KWh at the peak tariff: https://www.ewz.ch/en/private-customers/electricity/tariffs/overview-of-tariff.html https://www.ewz.ch/en/private-customers/electricity/tariffs/...
        engineer_22 6mo ago
        What's your weather like? Is it year round sunny? Do you get a lot of snow in the winter?
        tribaal 6mo ago
        It's mostly similar to France. My house is in a valley (so reasonable snow) and some good solar irradiation year round. The roof being at a steep angle also means snow doesn't tend to accumulate much.
    - engineer_22 6mo ago
      How much does power and grid delivery cost in Canada to make this economical? You're into this for $15,000 what is your payback period? Are there other ameliorating criteria for success?
      - testing22321 6mo ago
  - ck2 6mo ago
    it's from a US warehouse so there are no tariffs (or they've already been paid/included)
- dhosek 6mo ago
  100W 18V for $37 and change.
  - dhosek 6mo ago
    If we can get balcony solar in the US that will be a huge game changer.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - engineer_22 6mo ago
      Subtropical latitudes in continental US markets, you're looking at like $2/yr/sq ft of value for the power output. I'd want solar panels for like $5/sq ft installed, expecting 10 years of life. It's going to cost $1000 minimum to install, so the panels need to cost $2/sq ft x 300 sq ft to make this worth it. $1000 to install 300 sq ft + inverter and electrical panel upgrades seems light but might be reasonable we'll go with it. Larger than a balcony, but maybe in the realm of possibility for a roof. Right now solar panels cost what? $10 per square foot? Have they reached the physical limit of economic production/storage/transportation at $10 per sq ft or can it go lower? (Let's not get into battery micro-storage economics).
      - wing-_-nuts 6mo ago
        When you consider your other option is a whole house generator which sits idle 99.99% of the time, requires regular maintenance, vs the fact that a solar / battery setup is providing resiliency AND lowering your power bill every month, it seems like solar / bat is a no brainer. Your money, your choices, but I know which one I'm doing when I get a single family home.
        engineer_22 6mo ago
        False dilemma. There are other options.
- daemonologist 6mo ago
  I'm in the US and it's showing a 100W panel for USD 37.21 (free shipping, including tariffs but not state/local taxes). Also the panels Carter installed were solar water heaters - in 1979 solar photovoltaics were just starting to expand beyond satellites and cost like $40/watt.
  - ck2 6mo ago
    it's actually $33 because there's a $4 coupon available to everyone on the page and if you buy 2 at a time there are multiple 10% codes available so it's $67 USD for 200watts 100watt 18volt 5amp panels that can be put in series or parallel for $33 each, it's crazy
- ck2 6mo ago
  sorry didn't think it would have geo-block https://images2.imgbox.com/8b/e1/R6pnQUCr_o.jpg https://images2.imgbox.com/8b/e1/R6pnQUCr_o.jpg
DonHopkins 6mo ago
And Reagan taking them down. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/22/jiimmy-carter-solar-panel/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/22/jiimmy-ca... >It was pretty symbolic back in 1979, too. The symbolism depended on what you thought of Carter and his policies. For some, the panels were a much-needed acknowledgment that America had to wean itself from fossil fuel, explore alternative energy sources and help save the planet. For others, they were in the same category as Carter’s virtue-signaling cardigan. Of course, critics moaned, Carter would put solar panels on the White House. >The panels came down in 1986 when the White House roof was undergoing repairs. Ronald Reagan did not have them replaced. Of course, Reagan wouldn’t put solar panels on the White House. What is the story behind Reagan taking down the solar panels installed by Carter? Was it symbolic of a new, less enthusiastic approach to clean energy? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/g4w4ww/what_is_the_story_behind_reagan_taking_down_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/g4w4ww/what_... Solar power at the White House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House >On June 20, 1979, 32 solar water heating panels were placed on the roof of the West Wing. The panels were made by InterTechnology/Solar Corp. from Warrenton, Virginia and installed by Hector Guevara of Alternate Energy Industries Corp.[2] At the dedication ceremony for the panels, President Carter said, "In the year 2000 this solar water heater behind me, which is being dedicated today, will still be here supplying cheap, efficient energy... A generation from now, this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people".[1] The whole installation cost $35,000 in 1979 (about $160,000 now). https://books.google.nl/books?id=e9dlzwL4Ck4C&dq=solar+white+house&pg=PA5&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=e9dlzwL4Ck4C&dq=solar+white...
atwrk 6mo ago
That's actually only cheap because of the free shipping - in Germany 450W panels are at about 55-60€ retail right now, for example. So a balcony set (2 panels for 1kW total, plus inverter) is about 150-200€, depending on the specific parts. Both exluding shipping, though. Prices fell dramatically in the last few years, if I understood things correctly the high prices in the US are mostly due to tariffs.
- cyberge99 6mo ago
  That’s right. The current US president just reversed some of the previous administration’s Infrastructure Act which provided about 30% tax credit for installing solar.
tmp10423288442 6mo ago
They were not photovoltaic solar panels, but solar water heating panels - i.e., running a ton of water pipes on the roof where they're perfectly placed to leak and potentially damage historically-significant artifacts. I'm not surprised they removed them when resurfacing the roof (not right when Reagan entered office, but in 1986). George W. Bush actually installed solar water heating once again, but on the roof of a maintenance facility, which I didn't know about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House
- mitthrowaway2 6mo ago
  Yeah, you really don't want water getting on your roof.
  - defrost 6mo ago
    Kind of a shallow point that ignores glaring implication that it would have been the piping, in/out/relief et al passing through the roof that would have been the issue, causing water to enter and travel.

by ck2 6mo ago

saidinesh5 6mo ago

The link isn't available here. Can you share the specs and price of that panel?

cma 6mo ago
$37.21 for a 100 watt panel with free shipping. I'm not sure if that is before or after 50% tariffs and/or the 10% "fentanyl" extra tariff that was announced a few days after Ross Ulbricht's pardon for running the world's largest opiates-by-mail operation.
- dhosek 6mo ago
  Heck even if that’s pre-tariff it’s cheap enough that it could be an impulse buy.
- horsawlarway 6mo ago
  You can buy brand new in bulk in the US for roughly the same $/watt. I bought 30 375w Canadian Solar panels 2 years ago and paid $0.41/watt (~$4536 for the whole package) My mounting equipment actually cost more than the panels (~$4600). And the permitting process cost nearly as much as the panels (permit cost + architectural drawing + structural engineer stamp + electrician stamp). It's crazy how cheap solar panels themselves are getting. They're going to win on the energy front - period. Especially now that battery tech actually seems to be moving again. I vividly remember one of my robotics professors in undergrad ranting about how frustrated he was with battery tech in ~2007, but LFP and sodium batteries are both pretty huge steps forward.
  - tribaal 6mo ago
    Another data point: my entire system in Switzerland cost me 1.3CHF/Watt including a 20kWh battery and 5000 CHF of scaffolding costs (needed because of our local OSHA equivalent laws when installing panels on a tilted roof). It has become ridiculously cheap indeed.
    - engineer_22 6mo ago
      What's the cost of power in Confoederatio Helvetica?
      - rayhaanj 6mo ago
        Around 30 centiCHFs per KWh at the peak tariff: https://www.ewz.ch/en/private-customers/electricity/tariffs/overview-of-tariff.html https://www.ewz.ch/en/private-customers/electricity/tariffs/...
        engineer_22 6mo ago
        What's your weather like? Is it year round sunny? Do you get a lot of snow in the winter?
        tribaal 6mo ago
        It's mostly similar to France. My house is in a valley (so reasonable snow) and some good solar irradiation year round. The roof being at a steep angle also means snow doesn't tend to accumulate much.
  - engineer_22 6mo ago
    How much does power and grid delivery cost in Canada to make this economical? You're into this for $15,000 what is your payback period? Are there other ameliorating criteria for success?
    - testing22321 6mo ago
- ck2 6mo ago
  it's from a US warehouse so there are no tariffs (or they've already been paid/included)
dhosek 6mo ago
100W 18V for $37 and change.
- dhosek 6mo ago
  If we can get balcony solar in the US that will be a huge game changer.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - engineer_22 6mo ago
    Subtropical latitudes in continental US markets, you're looking at like $2/yr/sq ft of value for the power output. I'd want solar panels for like $5/sq ft installed, expecting 10 years of life. It's going to cost $1000 minimum to install, so the panels need to cost $2/sq ft x 300 sq ft to make this worth it. $1000 to install 300 sq ft + inverter and electrical panel upgrades seems light but might be reasonable we'll go with it. Larger than a balcony, but maybe in the realm of possibility for a roof. Right now solar panels cost what? $10 per square foot? Have they reached the physical limit of economic production/storage/transportation at $10 per sq ft or can it go lower? (Let's not get into battery micro-storage economics).
    - wing-_-nuts 6mo ago
      When you consider your other option is a whole house generator which sits idle 99.99% of the time, requires regular maintenance, vs the fact that a solar / battery setup is providing resiliency AND lowering your power bill every month, it seems like solar / bat is a no brainer. Your money, your choices, but I know which one I'm doing when I get a single family home.
      - engineer_22 6mo ago
        False dilemma. There are other options.
daemonologist 6mo ago
I'm in the US and it's showing a 100W panel for USD 37.21 (free shipping, including tariffs but not state/local taxes). Also the panels Carter installed were solar water heaters - in 1979 solar photovoltaics were just starting to expand beyond satellites and cost like $40/watt.
- ck2 6mo ago
  it's actually $33 because there's a $4 coupon available to everyone on the page and if you buy 2 at a time there are multiple 10% codes available so it's $67 USD for 200watts 100watt 18volt 5amp panels that can be put in series or parallel for $33 each, it's crazy
ck2 6mo ago
sorry didn't think it would have geo-block https://images2.imgbox.com/8b/e1/R6pnQUCr_o.jpg https://images2.imgbox.com/8b/e1/R6pnQUCr_o.jpg

DonHopkins 6mo ago

And Reagan taking them down. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/22/jiimmy-carter-solar-panel/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/03/22/jiimmy-ca... >It was pretty symbolic back in 1979, too. The symbolism depended on what you thought of Carter and his policies. For some, the panels were a much-needed acknowledgment that America had to wean itself from fossil fuel, explore alternative energy sources and help save the planet. For others, they were in the same category as Carter’s virtue-signaling cardigan. Of course, critics moaned, Carter would put solar panels on the White House. >The panels came down in 1986 when the White House roof was undergoing repairs. Ronald Reagan did not have them replaced. Of course, Reagan wouldn’t put solar panels on the White House. What is the story behind Reagan taking down the solar panels installed by Carter? Was it symbolic of a new, less enthusiastic approach to clean energy? https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/g4w4ww/what_is_the_story_behind_reagan_taking_down_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/g4w4ww/what_... Solar power at the White House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House >On June 20, 1979, 32 solar water heating panels were placed on the roof of the West Wing. The panels were made by InterTechnology/Solar Corp. from Warrenton, Virginia and installed by Hector Guevara of Alternate Energy Industries Corp.[2] At the dedication ceremony for the panels, President Carter said, "In the year 2000 this solar water heater behind me, which is being dedicated today, will still be here supplying cheap, efficient energy... A generation from now, this solar heater can either be a curiosity, a museum piece, an example of a road not taken or it can be just a small part of one of the greatest and most exciting adventures ever undertaken by the American people".[1] The whole installation cost $35,000 in 1979 (about $160,000 now). https://books.google.nl/books?id=e9dlzwL4Ck4C&dq=solar+white+house&pg=PA5&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.nl/books?id=e9dlzwL4Ck4C&dq=solar+white...

atwrk 6mo ago

That's actually only cheap because of the free shipping - in Germany 450W panels are at about 55-60€ retail right now, for example. So a balcony set (2 panels for 1kW total, plus inverter) is about 150-200€, depending on the specific parts. Both exluding shipping, though. Prices fell dramatically in the last few years, if I understood things correctly the high prices in the US are mostly due to tariffs.

cyberge99 6mo ago
That’s right. The current US president just reversed some of the previous administration’s Infrastructure Act which provided about 30% tax credit for installing solar.

tmp10423288442 6mo ago

They were not photovoltaic solar panels, but solar water heating panels - i.e., running a ton of water pipes on the roof where they're perfectly placed to leak and potentially damage historically-significant artifacts. I'm not surprised they removed them when resurfacing the roof (not right when Reagan entered office, but in 1986). George W. Bush actually installed solar water heating once again, but on the roof of a maintenance facility, which I didn't know about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_at_the_White_House

mitthrowaway2 6mo ago
Yeah, you really don't want water getting on your roof.
- defrost 6mo ago
  Kind of a shallow point that ignores glaring implication that it would have been the piping, in/out/relief et al passing through the roof that would have been the issue, causing water to enter and travel.