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I have never considered Apple to be a solid software company. They are a marketing company in the tech sector. If they made washing machines they'd be sexy as

I have never considered Apple to be a solid software company. They are a marketing company in the tech sector. If they made washing machines they'd be sexy as hell. In my years of exposure to Apple tech I have always been in awe of their industrial design, mechanical design and manufacturing prowess. Their software, however, often leaves much to be desired. I say this both as a developer and a user. From OSX to iOS there are amazing patches of software manure in plain sight. And it isn't getting any better.

addlepate 14y ago
OK. I bet you use a WebKit browser.
zizee 14y ago
addlepate wrote 37 minutes ago | link [dead] OK. I bet you use a WebKit browser. addlepate: you were hell-banned 100 days ago (unfairly in my mind).
- pretoriusB 14y ago
  Here's an easy clue: if your comments never get above or below 1 point for days, that means you are hell-banned.
  - mkr-hn 14y ago
    The only thing you could infer from that is that you're not a bad enough poster to warrant downvotes.
    - pretoriusB 14y ago
      Not really. It's a sure sign that you are hell-banned. I mean, we can check statistically, and I bet we would find that nobody stays at 1 point forever in all his comments. (And it's also upvotes you won't be getting).
      - mkr-hn 14y ago
        I can't be the only one who upvotes good comments from hellbanned accounts in the hopes that the vote will have some impact.
  - zizee 14y ago
    Another clue is that nobody ever responds to you.
- addlepate 14y ago
  I know, it's pretty obvious when it happens. Thanks, though. I've tried getting around it in various ways but I really can't seem to. So, posting into the abyss.
pretoriusB 14y ago
>I have never considered Apple to be a solid software company. What does that even mean? That they make bad software? For one, they make the most popular certified UNIX OS in the world, and one of the two most popular mobile OSs. Their professional offerings are great too: Logic Pro, Aperture, Final Cut Pro, etc. In fact, FCPX aside, they are professional staples, with few competitors. And huge number of desktop and the majority of mobile users use a browser they developed to the best game in town starting from humble open source origins (khtml -> webkit). And that Clang thing, that FreeBSD recently adopted? Their work too, along with other LLVM infrastructure. >Their software, however, often leaves much to be desired. I say this both as a developer and a user. Care to mention any substantially better mobile OS than iOS? (One might argue that Android is better. But substantially better, no way in hell).
- devcpp 14y ago
  Popularity means good software? Windows must be the best OS by very far then! Regarding mobile OS, we all know this now depends on the number of "apps" available. Many may have made a superior OS, but adoption has been too low because of the lack of apps.
  - wildranter 14y ago
    No, it doesn't. I think what you really meant popularity of a mobile OS depends on the number of apps available. In reality, a good OS really depends on the quality of its API. Code you can rely on to build great apps. And, what do you mean by many have made superior OS? You meant Blackberry OS 10? Nah, it's vaporware. Or what you really meant WebOS? Nah, it's fartware. Nokiat attempts with weird funny names? Windows Mobile 8? Have you heard of DLL hell or whatever flavor of bad API Redmond throws out the windows these days? We really have two mobile OS, Android and iOS. They both have good APIs, and also some dirty little bugs inherent of any new code base. And we have to deal with it.
  - pretoriusB 14y ago
    >Popularity means good software? Windows must be the best OS by very far then! Yes, windows too, has had historically delivered the things its users cared about. "Good software" is not some mystical status of code perfection, it's doing the things its users want it to do. So, yes, popularity equals good software. Software, as any engineering effort, is measured by its utility and use. It's not like art where popular is not necessarily good. Unless you are some kind of dreadful "code poet", whose programs nobody uses. But notice how I didn't just say that Apple's software is good because it's popular. For example, I challenged anyone to mention a "substantially better mobile OS than iOS". >Regarding mobile OS, we all know this now depends on the number of "apps" available. No, even without apps, the basic OS is just as important. iPhone, at it's introduction, had by far the best OS of every other smartphone out there, even without third party apps at all. >Many may have made a superior OS, but adoption has been too low because of the lack of apps. Really? Disregarding apps at all from the comparison, do you care to mention one "superior mobile OS", let alone "many"?
huhtenberg 14y ago
You don't say. All that effort that went into humanizing BSD is absolutely laughable.

addlepate 14y ago

OK. I bet you use a WebKit browser.

zizee 14y ago

addlepate wrote 37 minutes ago | link [dead] OK. I bet you use a WebKit browser. addlepate: you were hell-banned 100 days ago (unfairly in my mind).

pretoriusB 14y ago
Here's an easy clue: if your comments never get above or below 1 point for days, that means you are hell-banned.
- mkr-hn 14y ago
  The only thing you could infer from that is that you're not a bad enough poster to warrant downvotes.
  - pretoriusB 14y ago
    Not really. It's a sure sign that you are hell-banned. I mean, we can check statistically, and I bet we would find that nobody stays at 1 point forever in all his comments. (And it's also upvotes you won't be getting).
    - mkr-hn 14y ago
      I can't be the only one who upvotes good comments from hellbanned accounts in the hopes that the vote will have some impact.
- zizee 14y ago
  Another clue is that nobody ever responds to you.
addlepate 14y ago
I know, it's pretty obvious when it happens. Thanks, though. I've tried getting around it in various ways but I really can't seem to. So, posting into the abyss.

pretoriusB 14y ago

>I have never considered Apple to be a solid software company. What does that even mean? That they make bad software? For one, they make the most popular certified UNIX OS in the world, and one of the two most popular mobile OSs. Their professional offerings are great too: Logic Pro, Aperture, Final Cut Pro, etc. In fact, FCPX aside, they are professional staples, with few competitors. And huge number of desktop and the majority of mobile users use a browser they developed to the best game in town starting from humble open source origins (khtml -> webkit). And that Clang thing, that FreeBSD recently adopted? Their work too, along with other LLVM infrastructure. >Their software, however, often leaves much to be desired. I say this both as a developer and a user. Care to mention any substantially better mobile OS than iOS? (One might argue that Android is better. But substantially better, no way in hell).

devcpp 14y ago
Popularity means good software? Windows must be the best OS by very far then! Regarding mobile OS, we all know this now depends on the number of "apps" available. Many may have made a superior OS, but adoption has been too low because of the lack of apps.
- wildranter 14y ago
  No, it doesn't. I think what you really meant popularity of a mobile OS depends on the number of apps available. In reality, a good OS really depends on the quality of its API. Code you can rely on to build great apps. And, what do you mean by many have made superior OS? You meant Blackberry OS 10? Nah, it's vaporware. Or what you really meant WebOS? Nah, it's fartware. Nokiat attempts with weird funny names? Windows Mobile 8? Have you heard of DLL hell or whatever flavor of bad API Redmond throws out the windows these days? We really have two mobile OS, Android and iOS. They both have good APIs, and also some dirty little bugs inherent of any new code base. And we have to deal with it.
- pretoriusB 14y ago
  >Popularity means good software? Windows must be the best OS by very far then! Yes, windows too, has had historically delivered the things its users cared about. "Good software" is not some mystical status of code perfection, it's doing the things its users want it to do. So, yes, popularity equals good software. Software, as any engineering effort, is measured by its utility and use. It's not like art where popular is not necessarily good. Unless you are some kind of dreadful "code poet", whose programs nobody uses. But notice how I didn't just say that Apple's software is good because it's popular. For example, I challenged anyone to mention a "substantially better mobile OS than iOS". >Regarding mobile OS, we all know this now depends on the number of "apps" available. No, even without apps, the basic OS is just as important. iPhone, at it's introduction, had by far the best OS of every other smartphone out there, even without third party apps at all. >Many may have made a superior OS, but adoption has been too low because of the lack of apps. Really? Disregarding apps at all from the comparison, do you care to mention one "superior mobile OS", let alone "many"?

huhtenberg 14y ago

You don't say. All that effort that went into humanizing BSD is absolutely laughable.