4 ms·

Rob Pike is very smart guy, but he works in relative isolation from other programmers. He usually creates his own tools and works with people that are like mind

Rob Pike is very smart guy, but he works in relative isolation from other programmers. He usually creates his own tools and works with people that are like minded. That is why he thinks it is so easy to just go directly to the code and achieve what he wants writing the right function to solve the right problem. OO was created to deal with the general issue of organizing lots of code around a reasonable design. It is a tool for industrial level programming, where there are thousands of programmers, many of them with bellow average skills, contributing to a single codebase. In that aspect I think OO has been very successful, because it provides a framework to simplify design decisions.

dsymonds 14y ago
Uh, no. Rob works with a number of other programmers on code that is directly used by thousands of other programmers.
- shadowmint 14y ago
  Does he really? I was under the impression he worked in a relatively small team working on code thats used by lots and lots of people, but only written by a few people. The OP's point is that when you have people you dont trust working on your code (and does he really?) there need to be controls somewhere to keep everything from getting screwed up. OO is one way of doing that; a good set of unit tests + CI is another.
  - dsymonds 14y ago
    I work with him at Google. Google has a single codebase shared by tens of thousands of engineers. People have areas of that that they own, but it is a wrong characterisation to say Rob "works in relative isolation from other programmers".
    - Evbn 14y ago
      At Google, how large is the Go community compared to the C++ or Java community, or the community working on a shared application code base like the Search engine?
      - dsymonds 14y ago
        It's small, but quickly growing.
  - ucee054 14y ago
    If you don't trust them, surely you should stick to procedural. Functional is over their heads, and OOP gets you inheritance spaghetti.
lazyjones 14y ago
I would be very proud - and I suggest most people should be - if I had written so many complete, useful and novel tools for myself (and others). It shows great proficiency and understanding of how to get things done. Which is arguably the most important skill a programmer can have (read Linus' C++ rant too ...). Personally I think - and that mindset was to a significant part shaped at University where this was a bit of a running gag in the 90's because the notion was actually taught - that OO was simply an attempt at getting people who have a more dominant right half of brain ("less intelligent people" if you forgive the conclusion) to structure their code better, because for some reason working with OO patterns and methods supposedly appeals to that half more. In other words, OO was inflicted upon us to get dumb people to write code too. Yes, it's offensive, but ... make your own observations.
qznc 14y ago
Reminds me of Linus Torvalds. He works on top of a kernel he has (initially) written himself, using a VCS he has (initially) written himself, and using an ancient heavily-customized editor [0,1]. Somehow his tools are more successful than Pike's. However, I doubt we could convince Torvalds to create a programming language. [0] https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/iySKQGtkmtb https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/iySKQGtkmtb [1] http://git.kernel.org/?p=editors/uemacs/uemacs.git;a=summary http://git.kernel.org/?p=editors/uemacs/uemacs.git;a=summary

dsymonds 14y ago

Uh, no. Rob works with a number of other programmers on code that is directly used by thousands of other programmers.

shadowmint 14y ago
Does he really? I was under the impression he worked in a relatively small team working on code thats used by lots and lots of people, but only written by a few people. The OP's point is that when you have people you dont trust working on your code (and does he really?) there need to be controls somewhere to keep everything from getting screwed up. OO is one way of doing that; a good set of unit tests + CI is another.
- dsymonds 14y ago
  I work with him at Google. Google has a single codebase shared by tens of thousands of engineers. People have areas of that that they own, but it is a wrong characterisation to say Rob "works in relative isolation from other programmers".
  - Evbn 14y ago
    At Google, how large is the Go community compared to the C++ or Java community, or the community working on a shared application code base like the Search engine?
    - dsymonds 14y ago
      It's small, but quickly growing.
- ucee054 14y ago
  If you don't trust them, surely you should stick to procedural. Functional is over their heads, and OOP gets you inheritance spaghetti.

lazyjones 14y ago

I would be very proud - and I suggest most people should be - if I had written so many complete, useful and novel tools for myself (and others). It shows great proficiency and understanding of how to get things done. Which is arguably the most important skill a programmer can have (read Linus' C++ rant too ...). Personally I think - and that mindset was to a significant part shaped at University where this was a bit of a running gag in the 90's because the notion was actually taught - that OO was simply an attempt at getting people who have a more dominant right half of brain ("less intelligent people" if you forgive the conclusion) to structure their code better, because for some reason working with OO patterns and methods supposedly appeals to that half more. In other words, OO was inflicted upon us to get dumb people to write code too. Yes, it's offensive, but ... make your own observations.

qznc 14y ago

Reminds me of Linus Torvalds. He works on top of a kernel he has (initially) written himself, using a VCS he has (initially) written himself, and using an ancient heavily-customized editor [0,1]. Somehow his tools are more successful than Pike's. However, I doubt we could convince Torvalds to create a programming language. [0] https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/iySKQGtkmtb https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/iySKQGtkmtb [1] http://git.kernel.org/?p=editors/uemacs/uemacs.git;a=summary http://git.kernel.org/?p=editors/uemacs/uemacs.git;a=summary