4 ms·

On a work computer? No there shouldn't and isn't.

whateverboat 7mo ago
This is Stockholm syndrome. Sure, you can enforce zero privacy on work computers, it will just lead to shitty work culture and lowered productivity.
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cyclopeanutopia 7mo ago
    > employee communications are already monitored everywhere proof? > Turns out people actually don't really care about privacy at work lol, won't ask for proof, because it's trivially falsifiable
    - satvikpendem 7mo ago
      Ask your IT department what they're tracking and they'll tell you. And yet I assume you still continue to go to work or do not actively seek out non-surveiling companies. By "everybody," maybe iI should clarify that it’s "majority" instead.
      - Liskni_si 7mo ago
        What if "the IT department" is just this one guy who asks me to Cc him an invoice when I buy a laptop and that's the end of it? (yes that's a real story from my career, and the company was 100+ employees at the time)
        satvikpendem 7mo ago
        That's fine but realize you are not representative of the average tech worker or indeed any white collar worker such as those we are talking about in this post.
    - francoisdevlin 7mo ago
      As an old hand that's managed many people, I can tell you this is true.
- unmole 7mo ago
  I don't see how people using a work computer exclusively for work would lead to a shitty work culture, let alone lowered productivity.
cyclopeanutopia 7mo ago
Why not? How about a company-owned toilet? It's their property as well.
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  You're right, maybe they should put cameras in there too. But there's a reason we don't yet every worker still explicitly or implicitly knows not to use their work computer for personal tasks, as people can and do get fired for doing so.
  - cyclopeanutopia 7mo ago
    This is a ridiculous statement. Everyone I know at my company uses work laptops for personal stuff. It's not in the land of freedom though, so great leaders like yourself can't fire people at will. TBH at this point I don't believe you are a real person.
    - satvikpendem 7mo ago
      Consider, do they ever go on explicit websites on that computer? No? Because they know that's surveiled while a personal computer for the same purpose is not. As I said, people do know the difference and might do light personal things like googling something unrelated to work but wouldn't do e.g. banking on a work computer. If they do, well, it'll be their fault if they ever get fired for doing so. The fact that you don't believe people who don't share your same opinion on mixing work and personal stuff are somehow not "real" is part of the problem.
      - deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
      - seanp2k2 7mo ago
        Most companies just don't have a reason to look through the computer they're letting you use to do your job. Don't give them a reason. Maximizing shareholder value by observing you doing job in the pursuit of replacing you with a very small shell script is a great reason that they've just discovered. Get your own laptop, pay for your own cellphone, use your own internet service, etc. If you create anything of value on their property or with their property or during times they're paying you in any capacity, expect them to use it for profit.
AgentOrange1234 7mo ago
That sounds like a truly dystopian take to me, but suppose you're right and nobody should ever use their work computer for anything personal. Per TFA, this thing is literally taking screenshots of what is on the employee's screen. At work my screen sometimes had things such as: performance data on other employees, my own PII from HR systems, PII from customers, password managers, etc. It's also logging keystrokes. How many times do you type passwords a day. Collecting that kind of information on purpose is truly wild. Imagine the security safeguards you would need just to prevent it from leaking. Wait what, they're explicitly collecting it to train LLMs with it? God help us all.
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  Your screenshots go to your managers, not just anyone in the company. At Meta there are very strict safeguards for preventing employees e.g. stalking their exes, so I'd assume the same security is used for even PII filled images.
  - lazide 7mo ago
    Bwahaha. The same protections the NSA has? The ones on the ‘inside’ are doing to 500% of the time I’m sure
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
rexpop 7mo ago
I spend the majority of my adult life working, and you're telling me I should spend it surveilled?
- satvikpendem 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - ryandrake 7mo ago
    Im pretty surprised you're getting so much flak for this. This is the least controversial opinion I've seen on HN. I've been working for ~30 years, and every job I've had, if you actually looked at the IT policies, they were all very clear that work devices were for work, personal devices were for personal stuff. It wouldn't even occur to me to cross the streams. Carrying a second phone for personal stuff is a trivial burden.
    - satvikpendem 7mo ago
      I'm also very surprised, so much so that one of my comments got flagged for it. Seems like it's a few dissenters while others have mentioned concurring with this fact as I also have always been under the impression that work hardware is for work only. And then some people are talking about how it's authoritarian or anti human, like, it's not that deep.
      - rexpop 7mo ago
        > it's not that deep. In your view what, if anything, is?
    - fc417fc802 7mo ago
      > every job I've had, if you actually looked at the IT policies, they were all very clear that work devices were for work, personal devices were for personal stuff There's quite a difference between that and zero privacy, and there's also quite a difference between "IT policy says" or "the law permits" and "this is how things ought to be". That said, between necessary endpoint security and the potential to get caught up in corporate legal disputes I feel like maintaining a strict separation is advisable. But that doesn't mean I support unnecessarily invasive surveillance or think it's a good thing.
xpe 7mo ago
/facepalm If we're going to debate norms and ethics, sending one liners into cyberspace won't get far. There are better ways. Invest in your conversational skills and listening skills, please. Otherwise you are a moth and HN is a streetlamp.
sho_hn 7mo ago
In most civilized countries you absolutely do have significant rights to privacy on a work computer.
kube-system 7mo ago
It might surprise you, but culturally, not all companies are this way. I know some are, but some are very different. 100% of the people at my company use their computer for personal tasks, and this is permissible under our policies. Our company is fully BYOD and owns zero computers, and zero cell phones.

This is Stockholm syndrome. Sure, you can enforce zero privacy on work computers, it will just lead to shitty work culture and lowered productivity.

satvikpendem 7mo ago
[flagged]
- cyclopeanutopia 7mo ago
  > employee communications are already monitored everywhere proof? > Turns out people actually don't really care about privacy at work lol, won't ask for proof, because it's trivially falsifiable
  - satvikpendem 7mo ago
    Ask your IT department what they're tracking and they'll tell you. And yet I assume you still continue to go to work or do not actively seek out non-surveiling companies. By "everybody," maybe iI should clarify that it’s "majority" instead.
    - Liskni_si 7mo ago
      What if "the IT department" is just this one guy who asks me to Cc him an invoice when I buy a laptop and that's the end of it? (yes that's a real story from my career, and the company was 100+ employees at the time)
      - satvikpendem 7mo ago
        That's fine but realize you are not representative of the average tech worker or indeed any white collar worker such as those we are talking about in this post.
  - francoisdevlin 7mo ago
    As an old hand that's managed many people, I can tell you this is true.
unmole 7mo ago
I don't see how people using a work computer exclusively for work would lead to a shitty work culture, let alone lowered productivity.

cyclopeanutopia 7mo ago

Why not? How about a company-owned toilet? It's their property as well.

satvikpendem 7mo ago
You're right, maybe they should put cameras in there too. But there's a reason we don't yet every worker still explicitly or implicitly knows not to use their work computer for personal tasks, as people can and do get fired for doing so.
- cyclopeanutopia 7mo ago
  This is a ridiculous statement. Everyone I know at my company uses work laptops for personal stuff. It's not in the land of freedom though, so great leaders like yourself can't fire people at will. TBH at this point I don't believe you are a real person.
  - satvikpendem 7mo ago
    Consider, do they ever go on explicit websites on that computer? No? Because they know that's surveiled while a personal computer for the same purpose is not. As I said, people do know the difference and might do light personal things like googling something unrelated to work but wouldn't do e.g. banking on a work computer. If they do, well, it'll be their fault if they ever get fired for doing so. The fact that you don't believe people who don't share your same opinion on mixing work and personal stuff are somehow not "real" is part of the problem.
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
    - seanp2k2 7mo ago
      Most companies just don't have a reason to look through the computer they're letting you use to do your job. Don't give them a reason. Maximizing shareholder value by observing you doing job in the pursuit of replacing you with a very small shell script is a great reason that they've just discovered. Get your own laptop, pay for your own cellphone, use your own internet service, etc. If you create anything of value on their property or with their property or during times they're paying you in any capacity, expect them to use it for profit.

AgentOrange1234 7mo ago

That sounds like a truly dystopian take to me, but suppose you're right and nobody should ever use their work computer for anything personal. Per TFA, this thing is literally taking screenshots of what is on the employee's screen. At work my screen sometimes had things such as: performance data on other employees, my own PII from HR systems, PII from customers, password managers, etc. It's also logging keystrokes. How many times do you type passwords a day. Collecting that kind of information on purpose is truly wild. Imagine the security safeguards you would need just to prevent it from leaking. Wait what, they're explicitly collecting it to train LLMs with it? God help us all.

satvikpendem 7mo ago
Your screenshots go to your managers, not just anyone in the company. At Meta there are very strict safeguards for preventing employees e.g. stalking their exes, so I'd assume the same security is used for even PII filled images.
- lazide 7mo ago
  Bwahaha. The same protections the NSA has? The ones on the ‘inside’ are doing to 500% of the time I’m sure
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]

rexpop 7mo ago

I spend the majority of my adult life working, and you're telling me I should spend it surveilled?

satvikpendem 7mo ago
[flagged]
- ryandrake 7mo ago
  Im pretty surprised you're getting so much flak for this. This is the least controversial opinion I've seen on HN. I've been working for ~30 years, and every job I've had, if you actually looked at the IT policies, they were all very clear that work devices were for work, personal devices were for personal stuff. It wouldn't even occur to me to cross the streams. Carrying a second phone for personal stuff is a trivial burden.
  - satvikpendem 7mo ago
    I'm also very surprised, so much so that one of my comments got flagged for it. Seems like it's a few dissenters while others have mentioned concurring with this fact as I also have always been under the impression that work hardware is for work only. And then some people are talking about how it's authoritarian or anti human, like, it's not that deep.
    - rexpop 7mo ago
      > it's not that deep. In your view what, if anything, is?
  - fc417fc802 7mo ago
    > every job I've had, if you actually looked at the IT policies, they were all very clear that work devices were for work, personal devices were for personal stuff There's quite a difference between that and zero privacy, and there's also quite a difference between "IT policy says" or "the law permits" and "this is how things ought to be". That said, between necessary endpoint security and the potential to get caught up in corporate legal disputes I feel like maintaining a strict separation is advisable. But that doesn't mean I support unnecessarily invasive surveillance or think it's a good thing.

xpe 7mo ago

/facepalm If we're going to debate norms and ethics, sending one liners into cyberspace won't get far. There are better ways. Invest in your conversational skills and listening skills, please. Otherwise you are a moth and HN is a streetlamp.

sho_hn 7mo ago

In most civilized countries you absolutely do have significant rights to privacy on a work computer.

kube-system 7mo ago

It might surprise you, but culturally, not all companies are this way. I know some are, but some are very different. 100% of the people at my company use their computer for personal tasks, and this is permissible under our policies. Our company is fully BYOD and owns zero computers, and zero cell phones.