4 ms·

Dumb comparison, because buying a Framework is a single transaction where I exchange money for a computer, and buying a Mac is an entrypoint to “The Ecosystem”

by Lammy 6mo ago

Dumb comparison, because buying a Framework is a single transaction where I exchange money for a computer, and buying a Mac is an entrypoint to “The Ecosystem” where Apple wants to squeeze me for $<pricing_tier>/month forever. Peep the margins on “Products” versus “Services” and you will understand what Apple's incentives are and why just selling me hardware isn't it: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2026-q1/FY26_Q1_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2026-q1/FY26_Q1_Consol...

llbbdd 6mo ago
I've bought two Apple products in my life, both Macbook Pros, one in 2014 and one in 2021. I have a Pixel phone, zero transactions in the App Store all-time, pay $0 to Apple on any kind of subscription basis. Not disagreeing with the nature of their incentive structure, but if they're intentionally crippling their hardware division somehow to squeeze me for money, they're really bad at it.
- iririririr 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - llbbdd 6mo ago
    They were accused of that by people who didn't understand that batteries degrade over time, and the resulting legal suits were entirely about disclosing the throttling, not the throttling itself. Newer iPhone models still do the exact same thing, they just provide more information about it, and let you toggle it off. The idea that they were doing this maliciously never made sense anyway, customers who haven't upgraded in a while might be the least lucrative audience to target.
    - iririririr 6mo ago
      yet they released a "fix" later. you're just eating up the damage control narrative they pushed later, on ios18. and they also pushed it in 26 for some reason
  - thebruce87m 6mo ago
    This has never happened. Batterygate was about stopping individual handsets from rebooting by triggering throttling after a brownout. If you are trying to drive up sales you would just let these out of warranty devices reboot. Literally doing nothing would have been easier for Apple.
afavour 6mo ago
Buying a Mac is also a single transaction. Yes, they have lots of other services they want to sell you on but you're in no way obliged to take them up on it.
- Lammy 6mo ago
  I don't want to use a computer whose greatest aspiration is to be a sales funnel even if I am personally strong-willed enough to say no when nagged.
  - rafram 6mo ago
    macOS seriously never nags you about services. Service nags aren't classy. You can credibly accuse Apple of plenty of things, but having a lack of class isn't one.
    - Lammy 6mo ago
      My screenshots directory says you are wrong: https://i.ibb.co/cKjL8qcG/Screenshot-2025-02-18-at-09-07-06.png https://i.ibb.co/cKjL8qcG/Screenshot-2025-02-18-at-09-07-06.... My last (and first, and only) iPhone was even worse. At one point the Settings app had no fewer than three paid-service nags at the top that I had to scroll through to even get to the first actual setting. Storage almost full: enable iCloud Backup! Try Apple Music, first month free!! Activate your Apple News+ free trial!!! https://i.ibb.co/Cp275qQ9/news.webp https://i.ibb.co/Cp275qQ9/news.webp
      - rafram 6mo ago
        Image Playground isn’t a service, it’s a free local image generation model. But I’ll grant you that the News+ thing is kind of annoying. I wouldn’t call it a nag, though - it shows in the Settings anpp after you buy a new device that includes free months, while they’re still valid, then it goes away forever.
        initatus 6mo ago
rafram 6mo ago
It's really not, though. You don't even need an Apple account to set up a Mac. I pay $3/month to Apple in exchange for full-quality backups of decades of photos, but I could easily stop doing that, or switch to another provider, if I wanted to. (I don't, because $3/month is extremely fair for what I get.) I've never paid for any other Apple service and likely never will. The OS never, ever nags me about services - compare that to Windows!
- vizzier 6mo ago
  > or switch to another provider Can you though? Its been a few years since I've been on apple, but being able to get anything but icloud native support in other apps was basically non-existent. Compared to android where it gives you a plethora of choice out of the box.
  - rafram 6mo ago
    Yes - they're already on my computer, so any full-disk backup service will back them up by default. There's an option to purge them from disk and download from iCloud on demand, but you don't need to use it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111762 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111762
    - vizzier 6mo ago
      ah fair, I was thinking on the iphone, but in fairness this is a thread about a laptop
      - fizwidget 6mo ago
        Even on an iPhone you can back up your library to Google Photos or other services. You just can’t do so directly through Apple’s Photos app.
  - nicoburns 6mo ago
    It's different on mobile (iOS/Android) where individual apps need special support for cloud providers. On a mac everything is just a file for most apps, so all the cloud providers work by default.
rjh29 6mo ago
You're also locked into their ecosystem for repairs, accessories etc. all of which are more expensive than anywhere else.
- opan 6mo ago
  What kind of accessories? You can use cheap generic USB-C docks/hubs, depending on your needs. (macOS doesn't support DP MST so depending on # of screens you want to attach, you may need a more expensive dock, though it still doesn't have to be Apple-specific).
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
aurareturn 6mo ago
What $/month are you forced to buy for a Mac?

by Lammy 6mo ago

llbbdd 6mo ago

I've bought two Apple products in my life, both Macbook Pros, one in 2014 and one in 2021. I have a Pixel phone, zero transactions in the App Store all-time, pay $0 to Apple on any kind of subscription basis. Not disagreeing with the nature of their incentive structure, but if they're intentionally crippling their hardware division somehow to squeeze me for money, they're really bad at it.

iririririr 6mo ago
[flagged]
- llbbdd 6mo ago
  They were accused of that by people who didn't understand that batteries degrade over time, and the resulting legal suits were entirely about disclosing the throttling, not the throttling itself. Newer iPhone models still do the exact same thing, they just provide more information about it, and let you toggle it off. The idea that they were doing this maliciously never made sense anyway, customers who haven't upgraded in a while might be the least lucrative audience to target.
  - iririririr 6mo ago
    yet they released a "fix" later. you're just eating up the damage control narrative they pushed later, on ios18. and they also pushed it in 26 for some reason
- thebruce87m 6mo ago
  This has never happened. Batterygate was about stopping individual handsets from rebooting by triggering throttling after a brownout. If you are trying to drive up sales you would just let these out of warranty devices reboot. Literally doing nothing would have been easier for Apple.

afavour 6mo ago

Buying a Mac is also a single transaction. Yes, they have lots of other services they want to sell you on but you're in no way obliged to take them up on it.

Lammy 6mo ago
I don't want to use a computer whose greatest aspiration is to be a sales funnel even if I am personally strong-willed enough to say no when nagged.
- rafram 6mo ago
  macOS seriously never nags you about services. Service nags aren't classy. You can credibly accuse Apple of plenty of things, but having a lack of class isn't one.
  - Lammy 6mo ago
    My screenshots directory says you are wrong: https://i.ibb.co/cKjL8qcG/Screenshot-2025-02-18-at-09-07-06.png https://i.ibb.co/cKjL8qcG/Screenshot-2025-02-18-at-09-07-06.... My last (and first, and only) iPhone was even worse. At one point the Settings app had no fewer than three paid-service nags at the top that I had to scroll through to even get to the first actual setting. Storage almost full: enable iCloud Backup! Try Apple Music, first month free!! Activate your Apple News+ free trial!!! https://i.ibb.co/Cp275qQ9/news.webp https://i.ibb.co/Cp275qQ9/news.webp
    - rafram 6mo ago
      Image Playground isn’t a service, it’s a free local image generation model. But I’ll grant you that the News+ thing is kind of annoying. I wouldn’t call it a nag, though - it shows in the Settings anpp after you buy a new device that includes free months, while they’re still valid, then it goes away forever.
      - initatus 6mo ago

rafram 6mo ago

It's really not, though. You don't even need an Apple account to set up a Mac. I pay $3/month to Apple in exchange for full-quality backups of decades of photos, but I could easily stop doing that, or switch to another provider, if I wanted to. (I don't, because $3/month is extremely fair for what I get.) I've never paid for any other Apple service and likely never will. The OS never, ever nags me about services - compare that to Windows!

vizzier 6mo ago
> or switch to another provider Can you though? Its been a few years since I've been on apple, but being able to get anything but icloud native support in other apps was basically non-existent. Compared to android where it gives you a plethora of choice out of the box.
- rafram 6mo ago
  Yes - they're already on my computer, so any full-disk backup service will back them up by default. There's an option to purge them from disk and download from iCloud on demand, but you don't need to use it: https://support.apple.com/en-us/111762 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111762
  - vizzier 6mo ago
    ah fair, I was thinking on the iphone, but in fairness this is a thread about a laptop
    - fizwidget 6mo ago
      Even on an iPhone you can back up your library to Google Photos or other services. You just can’t do so directly through Apple’s Photos app.
- nicoburns 6mo ago
  It's different on mobile (iOS/Android) where individual apps need special support for cloud providers. On a mac everything is just a file for most apps, so all the cloud providers work by default.

rjh29 6mo ago

You're also locked into their ecosystem for repairs, accessories etc. all of which are more expensive than anywhere else.

opan 6mo ago
What kind of accessories? You can use cheap generic USB-C docks/hubs, depending on your needs. (macOS doesn't support DP MST so depending on # of screens you want to attach, you may need a more expensive dock, though it still doesn't have to be Apple-specific).

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

aurareturn 6mo ago

What $/month are you forced to buy for a Mac?