8 ms·

Minus the necessity of the wreath, I assume construction managers in the US are equally willing to accept free drinks and an extra $100/per bathroom. Does this

by pdenya 14y ago

Minus the necessity of the wreath, I assume construction managers in the US are equally willing to accept free drinks and an extra $100/per bathroom. Does this not work in the US because it can't be a reasonable default in those types of situations?

eob 14y ago
It's not a reasonable default because every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits. Edit: Not every, of course. And the number would vary by region of the US. Excuse the universal quantifier :)
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits. Wouldn't this have been the case in Japan in the early 80s too, when Washlets first came to the market?
  - ahlatimer 14y ago
    While discussions of what goes on in the bathroom may make most Americans uncomfortable, it certainly isn't so taboo as to point out a different toilet. Perhaps the Japanese culture is different, such that, while people may have wanted to ask why you have a fringe toilet, social norms kept them from doing so. I'm not Japanese, nor have I spent any time in Japan, so that's purely conjecture, but, knowing what little I know about Japanese culture, that wouldn't strike me as beyond belief.
    - Symmetry 14y ago
      Anecdotally your conjecture is correct.
    - jeffool 14y ago
      Speaking on cultural differences and American willingness to discuss bathroom culture... I, personally, don't like the idea of a warm seat. All I'll be thinking about is "someone else just used this toilet". Maybe one day I'll use one and it'll change my outlook completely, like the George Foreman grill nudged my outlook on the validity of infomercial products. But, until that happens? Nope, no thanks.
      - jpatokal 14y ago
        Warm seats seem like a pointless luxury if your bathroom is properly insulated and heated, but the vast majority of older Japanese housing is neither.
        ekianjo 14y ago
        Well, it is still more economical to warm up ONLY the seat than insulating the whole room. Especially since you do not stay hours every day in the restroom.
      - shard 14y ago
        Many cars nowadays have seat warmers, which can warm you up faster than turning on the heater. It's very pleasant in cold weather.
    - ameasure 14y ago
      You're right, Japan has a long and very interesting obsession with poop, primarily due to their geography. Japan is a series of volcanic islands with, historically, a very limited indigenous supply of large poop producing creatures like like cows, horses, and pigs. The result is that there was a great scarcity of fertile soil. To supplement their soil they instead relied on human feces. So valuable was it that back in the day you could sell your poop to professional manure collectors who walked around town with large pots. The cultural legacy extends well beyond toilets. You may have seen recent articles about people creating meat from poop, and poop powered motorcycles. It's no coincide that those are Japanese inventions. Funny how a thing like geography affects things.
  - miahi 14y ago
    Not really. The Japanese have a hygiene tradition, so new cleaning devices are highly thought of.
    - wilfra 14y ago
      I guess this doesn't extend to oral hygiene?
      - jpatokal 14y ago
        Japanese oral hygiene is fine. It's cosmetic dentistry, braces etc that they don't really get.
        wilfra 14y ago
        They have notoriously bad breath and bad teeth. Travel guides for Japanese tourists even suggest they brush their teeth regularly and use mouthwash in America so as not to offend people.
        ekianjo 14y ago
        Is this a joke? Japanese brush at least three times a day. Probably more than in most western countries. And they have tons of breath fresheners in convenience stores. You would not have such products if no-one was buying them. This being said, I can certainly relate to the cigarette smell, but that's not only a breath issue, that kind of smell sticks to everything, from clothes to interiors.
        polymatter 14y ago
        [citation needed]
        smithian 14y ago
        Have you ever been to Japan? In my travels there I have not noticed any unusual halitosis, and I've spent plenty of time packed into the metro at rush hour.
        14y ago
  - FrojoS 14y ago
    I don't have the source handy, but I remember there were at least two very attractive features that started the trend of "advanced" toilets in Japan: 1) A seat heater: Bathrooms used to be unheated so without this it would be very cold in the winter. Adding a heated seated was much cheaper than adding a room heater. 2) An artificial sound to overlay embarrassing farting sounds: Without this feature, it was common for Japanese women to constantly use the flush in order to create a louder sound. This was obviously a huge waste water. Once the ground was laid, it was natural to extend the number of features.
    - ido 14y ago
      2) An artificial sound to overlay embarrassing farting sounds: Without this feature, it was common for Japanese women to constantly use the flush in order to create a louder sound. This was obviously a huge waste water. Was this an issue because Japanese walls are thinner? Or homes smaller? Farting isn't considered particularly appetizing here either but I don't remember a single time this has been an issue (or ever hearing someone farting from outside the bathroom).
      - wilfra 14y ago
        A combination of a collectivist culture and crazy expensive real estate leads to more people living in smaller homes and in closer proximity to each others bowel movements. The Japanese diet also probably plays a role......
      - dthunt 14y ago
        The flushing is designed to cover up 'all' sounds. There's a lot of weird fetishes and taboos and hangups people have out here, so I wouldn't read too deeply into it. Diet is probably not a factor. The otohime is a huge water saver, though.
    - blazingfrog2 14y ago
      While we're knee-deep into the toilet conversation, you make an interesting observation. I'm originally from France and have lived in California for over 11 years but, to this day, I'm still astonished at how little embarrassment there is in American toilets (my experience is limited to the mens rooms) as far as unpleasant noise goes. It is obviously a fact of life but, where I come from, denial is king in that department. My theory is that it's because American public toilets are usually made of 2 thin, low separation walls and a door with sometimes wide gaps which makes it almost inevitable to share the entire experience with everybody in the room. Still not used to it...
  - nekojima 14y ago
    There was a considerable increase in the number of dwellings in Japan with flush toilets from 45.9% in 1978 to 83.0% in 1998. This likely led to an increased acceptance of the new style of toilets because the North American & Western European style flush-toilets were not as prevalent in the home at the time and so an in-grained cultural use was not the determining factor for choosing new toilet styles. * Stats from Statistics Bureau, Japan.
- eob 14y ago
  w1ntermute - That's a great question. We'll have to hope someone with better knowledge of Japanese habits and culture will respond to answer it.
- pserwylo 14y ago
  While that may be a tad arkward, it isn't as bad as it sounds. If I had one of these, I'd still leave toilet paper on the side for those who were uncomfortable with the concept of a Washlet. Edit: After reading the other comments, it is apparent that this is probably a good idea for primary users too. Makes sure the job is done right.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  The sales strategy is independent of the toilet model.
- warfangle 14y ago
  I saw this somewhere else, but it stuck with me: "if you get poop on your arm, do you wipe it off with a dry piece of paper - or do you wash with soap and water?" I don't understand why bidets are fringe :(
  - tedunangst 14y ago
    The difference being I anticipate the future interactions of my arm and my butt with the surrounding environment to be quite different.
    - viviantan 14y ago
      I realize there are serious health implications, but I can't read this thread without getting the giggle fits. This would be such an awesome first-world problems meme :)
      - viviantan 14y ago
        I just realized my earlier comment may appear trollish. That really wasn't my intention. I got a good chuckle from this discussion because I travel to Japan frequently. But no matter how many times I've encountered Japanese toilets, they still cause much amusement, confusion, and even some anxiety. (I say anxiety because sometimes it's hard to tell if pressing a button would cause the toilet to sing you a song or do something unexpected.) After reading this article and seeing the very lively and rather in-depth discussion here on HN, I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm not the only one befuddled and fascinated by this bit of Japanese technology. On the other hand, I've also spent time in parts of the world where there's no running water at all for flushing toilets. Hence the fringe nature of bidets in our society and toilet seats costing more than $1k = first world problems IMO. Not that it wouldn't make a great gift for the holidays.
  - nestlequ1k 14y ago
    If I got poop on my arm, I wouldn't use toilet water to wash it off. This to me is the #1 reason I don't want bidets and would never use it. Pretty much the most repellent idea to me is the concept of the toilet spraying me back. How's this for an idea... a sink next to the toilet where I can warm a piece of paper with water and use it. Nice, simple, and works well. Or baby wipes. Those work really well too. Replicate this with an "adult version". Toilet spray? No thanks. Ever
chopsueyar 14y ago
Just the toilet seat is $750 (Disclosure: This is on my Christmas wishlist)! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011YSEUC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0011YSEUC&linkCode=as2&tag=littdidd-20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011YSEUC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?... Although it does come with a remote (with LCD display), water temperature adjustment, volume control (for your iDevice), warm air-dryer, and air deodorizer.
- coin 14y ago
  What's with the affiliate link (littdidd-20)?
  - chadzawistowski 14y ago
    It's copied from his Xmas wishlist, Amazon probably put it there automatically.
  - nikatwork 14y ago
    I'm genuinely curious to know why people have a problem with affiliate links. If it doesn't harm you, and the info is good, why begrudge someone their tiny percentage cut?
    - EwanToo 14y ago
      I'm not particularly bothered by this case (or more affiliate links), but when I see them in a blog post saying "This article / service is awesome, buy it", and there's an affiliate link involved, I do generally think "Yeah and how much are you making for saying that?" But then I've done the same affiliate link stuff on occassion myself, especially when there's a perk link extra free space - it's easy to do, and as you say, not any harm as long as the intention isn't to mislead.
- gcheong 14y ago
  The company mentioned in the article seem to have comparable ones but are cheaper.
gregpilling 14y ago
Yes, the contractor will make many decisions for you - unless your architect made the decisions first.

by pdenya 14y ago

eob 14y ago

It's not a reasonable default because every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits. Edit: Not every, of course. And the number would vary by region of the US. Excuse the universal quantifier :)

w1ntermute 14y ago
> every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits. Wouldn't this have been the case in Japan in the early 80s too, when Washlets first came to the market?
- ahlatimer 14y ago
  While discussions of what goes on in the bathroom may make most Americans uncomfortable, it certainly isn't so taboo as to point out a different toilet. Perhaps the Japanese culture is different, such that, while people may have wanted to ask why you have a fringe toilet, social norms kept them from doing so. I'm not Japanese, nor have I spent any time in Japan, so that's purely conjecture, but, knowing what little I know about Japanese culture, that wouldn't strike me as beyond belief.
  - Symmetry 14y ago
    Anecdotally your conjecture is correct.
  - jeffool 14y ago
    Speaking on cultural differences and American willingness to discuss bathroom culture... I, personally, don't like the idea of a warm seat. All I'll be thinking about is "someone else just used this toilet". Maybe one day I'll use one and it'll change my outlook completely, like the George Foreman grill nudged my outlook on the validity of infomercial products. But, until that happens? Nope, no thanks.
    - jpatokal 14y ago
      Warm seats seem like a pointless luxury if your bathroom is properly insulated and heated, but the vast majority of older Japanese housing is neither.
      - ekianjo 14y ago
        Well, it is still more economical to warm up ONLY the seat than insulating the whole room. Especially since you do not stay hours every day in the restroom.
    - shard 14y ago
      Many cars nowadays have seat warmers, which can warm you up faster than turning on the heater. It's very pleasant in cold weather.
  - ameasure 14y ago
    You're right, Japan has a long and very interesting obsession with poop, primarily due to their geography. Japan is a series of volcanic islands with, historically, a very limited indigenous supply of large poop producing creatures like like cows, horses, and pigs. The result is that there was a great scarcity of fertile soil. To supplement their soil they instead relied on human feces. So valuable was it that back in the day you could sell your poop to professional manure collectors who walked around town with large pots. The cultural legacy extends well beyond toilets. You may have seen recent articles about people creating meat from poop, and poop powered motorcycles. It's no coincide that those are Japanese inventions. Funny how a thing like geography affects things.
- miahi 14y ago
  Not really. The Japanese have a hygiene tradition, so new cleaning devices are highly thought of.
  - wilfra 14y ago
    I guess this doesn't extend to oral hygiene?
    - jpatokal 14y ago
      Japanese oral hygiene is fine. It's cosmetic dentistry, braces etc that they don't really get.
      - wilfra 14y ago
        They have notoriously bad breath and bad teeth. Travel guides for Japanese tourists even suggest they brush their teeth regularly and use mouthwash in America so as not to offend people.
        ekianjo 14y ago
        Is this a joke? Japanese brush at least three times a day. Probably more than in most western countries. And they have tons of breath fresheners in convenience stores. You would not have such products if no-one was buying them. This being said, I can certainly relate to the cigarette smell, but that's not only a breath issue, that kind of smell sticks to everything, from clothes to interiors.
        polymatter 14y ago
        [citation needed]
        smithian 14y ago
        Have you ever been to Japan? In my travels there I have not noticed any unusual halitosis, and I've spent plenty of time packed into the metro at rush hour.
      - 14y ago
- FrojoS 14y ago
  I don't have the source handy, but I remember there were at least two very attractive features that started the trend of "advanced" toilets in Japan: 1) A seat heater: Bathrooms used to be unheated so without this it would be very cold in the winter. Adding a heated seated was much cheaper than adding a room heater. 2) An artificial sound to overlay embarrassing farting sounds: Without this feature, it was common for Japanese women to constantly use the flush in order to create a louder sound. This was obviously a huge waste water. Once the ground was laid, it was natural to extend the number of features.
  - ido 14y ago
    2) An artificial sound to overlay embarrassing farting sounds: Without this feature, it was common for Japanese women to constantly use the flush in order to create a louder sound. This was obviously a huge waste water. Was this an issue because Japanese walls are thinner? Or homes smaller? Farting isn't considered particularly appetizing here either but I don't remember a single time this has been an issue (or ever hearing someone farting from outside the bathroom).
    - wilfra 14y ago
      A combination of a collectivist culture and crazy expensive real estate leads to more people living in smaller homes and in closer proximity to each others bowel movements. The Japanese diet also probably plays a role......
    - dthunt 14y ago
      The flushing is designed to cover up 'all' sounds. There's a lot of weird fetishes and taboos and hangups people have out here, so I wouldn't read too deeply into it. Diet is probably not a factor. The otohime is a huge water saver, though.
  - blazingfrog2 14y ago
    While we're knee-deep into the toilet conversation, you make an interesting observation. I'm originally from France and have lived in California for over 11 years but, to this day, I'm still astonished at how little embarrassment there is in American toilets (my experience is limited to the mens rooms) as far as unpleasant noise goes. It is obviously a fact of life but, where I come from, denial is king in that department. My theory is that it's because American public toilets are usually made of 2 thin, low separation walls and a door with sometimes wide gaps which makes it almost inevitable to share the entire experience with everybody in the room. Still not used to it...
- nekojima 14y ago
  There was a considerable increase in the number of dwellings in Japan with flush toilets from 45.9% in 1978 to 83.0% in 1998. This likely led to an increased acceptance of the new style of toilets because the North American & Western European style flush-toilets were not as prevalent in the home at the time and so an in-grained cultural use was not the determining factor for choosing new toilet styles. * Stats from Statistics Bureau, Japan.
eob 14y ago
w1ntermute - That's a great question. We'll have to hope someone with better knowledge of Japanese habits and culture will respond to answer it.
pserwylo 14y ago
While that may be a tad arkward, it isn't as bad as it sounds. If I had one of these, I'd still leave toilet paper on the side for those who were uncomfortable with the concept of a Washlet. Edit: After reading the other comments, it is apparent that this is probably a good idea for primary users too. Makes sure the job is done right.
anigbrowl 14y ago
The sales strategy is independent of the toilet model.
warfangle 14y ago
I saw this somewhere else, but it stuck with me: "if you get poop on your arm, do you wipe it off with a dry piece of paper - or do you wash with soap and water?" I don't understand why bidets are fringe :(
- tedunangst 14y ago
  The difference being I anticipate the future interactions of my arm and my butt with the surrounding environment to be quite different.
  - viviantan 14y ago
    I realize there are serious health implications, but I can't read this thread without getting the giggle fits. This would be such an awesome first-world problems meme :)
    - viviantan 14y ago
      I just realized my earlier comment may appear trollish. That really wasn't my intention. I got a good chuckle from this discussion because I travel to Japan frequently. But no matter how many times I've encountered Japanese toilets, they still cause much amusement, confusion, and even some anxiety. (I say anxiety because sometimes it's hard to tell if pressing a button would cause the toilet to sing you a song or do something unexpected.) After reading this article and seeing the very lively and rather in-depth discussion here on HN, I'm pleasantly surprised that I'm not the only one befuddled and fascinated by this bit of Japanese technology. On the other hand, I've also spent time in parts of the world where there's no running water at all for flushing toilets. Hence the fringe nature of bidets in our society and toilet seats costing more than $1k = first world problems IMO. Not that it wouldn't make a great gift for the holidays.
- nestlequ1k 14y ago
  If I got poop on my arm, I wouldn't use toilet water to wash it off. This to me is the #1 reason I don't want bidets and would never use it. Pretty much the most repellent idea to me is the concept of the toilet spraying me back. How's this for an idea... a sink next to the toilet where I can warm a piece of paper with water and use it. Nice, simple, and works well. Or baby wipes. Those work really well too. Replicate this with an "adult version". Toilet spray? No thanks. Ever

chopsueyar 14y ago

Just the toilet seat is $750 (Disclosure: This is on my Christmas wishlist)! http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011YSEUC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0011YSEUC&linkCode=as2&tag=littdidd-20 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011YSEUC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?... Although it does come with a remote (with LCD display), water temperature adjustment, volume control (for your iDevice), warm air-dryer, and air deodorizer.

coin 14y ago
What's with the affiliate link (littdidd-20)?
- chadzawistowski 14y ago
  It's copied from his Xmas wishlist, Amazon probably put it there automatically.
- nikatwork 14y ago
  I'm genuinely curious to know why people have a problem with affiliate links. If it doesn't harm you, and the info is good, why begrudge someone their tiny percentage cut?
  - EwanToo 14y ago
    I'm not particularly bothered by this case (or more affiliate links), but when I see them in a blog post saying "This article / service is awesome, buy it", and there's an affiliate link involved, I do generally think "Yeah and how much are you making for saying that?" But then I've done the same affiliate link stuff on occassion myself, especially when there's a perk link extra free space - it's easy to do, and as you say, not any harm as long as the intention isn't to mislead.
gcheong 14y ago
The company mentioned in the article seem to have comparable ones but are cheaper.

gregpilling 14y ago

Yes, the contractor will make many decisions for you - unless your architect made the decisions first.