4 ms·

This reminds me of the collapse of the Gros Michel banana variety, also due to disease. Near-100% loss of a food crop, even a luxury one, is an alarming thing t

by pjc50 7mo ago

This reminds me of the collapse of the Gros Michel banana variety, also due to disease. Near-100% loss of a food crop, even a luxury one, is an alarming thing to see though. (I was wondering if climate change would be mentioned, but that doesn't seem to be critical there yet. Starting to be noticed in European grape terroir.)

HugoTea 7mo ago
They mention it as a critical factor, the disease is spread by insects, which is spread by hurricanes. The areas they grow the oranges never used to get hurricanes. > Hurricanes turned out to be a vector for spreading the little winged bug. The wind carried the psyllid all over the state, dropping it off in hundreds of thousands of acres of groves. > It was the perfect storm. And then, of course, there were the actual perfect storms, the high-caliber hurricanes that, before climate change, didn’t come to the Ridge: Irma, Ian, Milton, massive cells, all direct hits on the groves.
- treis 6mo ago
  Do you really believe parts of Florida never got hurricanes until recently?
  - zdragnar 6mo ago
    To be charitable, they merely pointed out what the article said, even if it is obviously, objectively false.
    - jibal 6mo ago
      It's not objectively false, people just can't read. > the high-caliber hurricanes that, before climate change, didn’t come to the Ridge
      - caminante 6mo ago
        You're making the parent's point. These recent storms only got to Cat4. Similar storms hit the aforementioned areas in 2004-05 including Cat4. How do these revelations not contradict the article?
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - HugoTea 6mo ago
    I have no idea what Florida's weather patterns are
    - caminante 6mo ago
      Yes, people are jumping in because neither did the author, and it seems like that's core to the author's argument.
- tgarrett 6mo ago
  >The areas they grow the oranges never used to get hurricanes. That's not correct: we have good data going back to 1851: https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hurdat/All_U.S._Hurricanes.html https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hurdat/All_U.S._Hurricanes.htm... Search for "FL": hurricanes have been hitting Florida frequently for the last 175 years.
  - acdha 6mo ago
    That's not the point being made: the article clearly states that those areas did not previously get hit by storms at this level. Climate change is making hurricanes stronger and wetter, so even though they've been a phenomenon for as long as humans have lived there that doesn't mean that the frequency of damaging storms over an area can't change in a way which makes it worse for agriculture. There's an inflation-adjusted list of weather events which caused the equivalent of a billion dollars or more in damages, and the upward trend is pretty clear — it's like dismissing the impact of the machine gun because people used to have long rifles. https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/billions/state-summary/FL https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/billions/state-summary/FL You get a similar problem with saltwater intrusion where, yes, it's never not been a phenomenon but now it's affecting a lot more people than it used to: https://southeastfloridaclimatecompact.org/initiative/climate-indicators-salt-water-intrustion/ https://southeastfloridaclimatecompact.org/initiative/climat...
    - slibhb 6mo ago
      Hurricanes do more dollars in damage because we're richer and there's more capital near the coast. The idea that climate change caused hurricanes which spread insects is not impossible but seems unlikely. I don't think the statistical methods exist to prove it.
      - caminante 6mo ago
        Valuations have skyrocketed and insurance premiums are insane. I love the stories about people in FL self-insuring now because it's cheaper to repair drywall than pay premiums.
    - 6mo ago
- patwolf 6mo ago
  Regardless of the debate of whether climate change has intensified hurricanes, it seems odd to blame hurricanes for being a vector for spreading the bugs. Wouldn't the bugs have spread via wind even if it wasn't climate change induced hurricane winds?
  - wolfie69 6mo ago
    The hurricanes spread the insects rapidly over a very large area, within a few days. With so many hurricanes coming so frequently the areal coverage overwhelmed what could have been a response.
- wolfie69 6mo ago
  Native Floridian here... although the story does not mention it central FL was hit in 2004 by hurricanes Charley, Frances and Jeanne, and in 2005 was affected by Hurricane Wilma as well. Before that you have to go back to the 1940s before inland central Florida was affected by hurricane force winds. I think the article left that out for editorial reasons, the recent hurricanes in the past few years the article mentions really contributed to the final demise of the orange industry. And yes, you used to be able to go outside at night in March and April smell the beautiful scent of the orange blossoms. It is certainly something of "Old Florida" that I miss.
onlyrealcuzzo 7mo ago
Did this banana have seeds!? I've never seen one, but it looks awful. They were actually good?
- mech422 7mo ago
  I never had one, but apperently they tasted much better then the current variety (which IIRC, is in danger of suffering the same fate) IIRC, there was actually a huge marketing push because people wouldn't each the current variety ? PS - the old one didn't go 100% extinct, and you can get small numbers of them from specialty growers. Youtube has videos of people trying them (1) 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI
- advisedwang 6mo ago
  No, it didn't have seeds either. Have you ever had "banana flavor" candy that doesn't really taste like bananas? The flavoring is Isoamyl acetate, and I've heard suggestion that people called it banana flavor because it tasted more like Gros Michel. After switching to Cavendish banana the flavor name no longer made as much sense. Not sure how true it is though.
  - advisedwang 6mo ago
    Someone in the thread linked to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI, where Hank Green tells this same story... and tries a Gros Michel banana and says it doesn't taste like "banana flavor"
    - tomrod 6mo ago
      I had them. They are wonderful, and even creamy. I still love tiny red bananas though, they are so sweet!
  - fuzzfactor 6mo ago
    Very true. The bananas I had as a child back in 1960 had the strong flavor of isoamyl acetate along with the natural bouquet of related flavors in lesser amounts. I hated it. The space-age banana popsicles were even worse because they were nothing but isoamyl acetate.
schlauerfox 6mo ago
Or the death of the American Chestnut the generation before, once so common its causually in a Christmas song, now all but gone.
- fuzzfactor 6mo ago
  Not to mention the loss of the 5-storey-tall coconut palms in South Florida back in the 1970's to Lethal Yellowing. The last resort treatment for these was tetracycline too but it did not save them. Plus they were not generally cultivated nor a local cash crop. These things used form a massive canopy or grove naturally in so many places, towering over the homes and undeveloped properties. Which is why so many old homes had the 3 inch thick white tiles on the roof. When one of the nuts comes down from up there it hits pretty hard, even if it's not a hurricane. Almost all virtually gone, and what's there now is really all the result of landscaping efforts ever since, using resistant varieties that are quite dwarf by comparison.
pg_bot 6mo ago
A similar thing happened in France in the 1850s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight
renewiltord 6mo ago
This banana has reached mythical banana status because of rarity. The flavor of various tropical bananas is way better. Both Taiwan and India have many varieties substantially better tasting than Gros Michel.

by pjc50 7mo ago

HugoTea 7mo ago

They mention it as a critical factor, the disease is spread by insects, which is spread by hurricanes. The areas they grow the oranges never used to get hurricanes. > Hurricanes turned out to be a vector for spreading the little winged bug. The wind carried the psyllid all over the state, dropping it off in hundreds of thousands of acres of groves. > It was the perfect storm. And then, of course, there were the actual perfect storms, the high-caliber hurricanes that, before climate change, didn’t come to the Ridge: Irma, Ian, Milton, massive cells, all direct hits on the groves.

treis 6mo ago
Do you really believe parts of Florida never got hurricanes until recently?
- zdragnar 6mo ago
  To be charitable, they merely pointed out what the article said, even if it is obviously, objectively false.
  - jibal 6mo ago
    It's not objectively false, people just can't read. > the high-caliber hurricanes that, before climate change, didn’t come to the Ridge
    - caminante 6mo ago
      You're making the parent's point. These recent storms only got to Cat4. Similar storms hit the aforementioned areas in 2004-05 including Cat4. How do these revelations not contradict the article?
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- HugoTea 6mo ago
  I have no idea what Florida's weather patterns are
  - caminante 6mo ago
    Yes, people are jumping in because neither did the author, and it seems like that's core to the author's argument.
tgarrett 6mo ago
>The areas they grow the oranges never used to get hurricanes. That's not correct: we have good data going back to 1851: https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hurdat/All_U.S._Hurricanes.html https://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/hurdat/All_U.S._Hurricanes.htm... Search for "FL": hurricanes have been hitting Florida frequently for the last 175 years.
- acdha 6mo ago
  That's not the point being made: the article clearly states that those areas did not previously get hit by storms at this level. Climate change is making hurricanes stronger and wetter, so even though they've been a phenomenon for as long as humans have lived there that doesn't mean that the frequency of damaging storms over an area can't change in a way which makes it worse for agriculture. There's an inflation-adjusted list of weather events which caused the equivalent of a billion dollars or more in damages, and the upward trend is pretty clear — it's like dismissing the impact of the machine gun because people used to have long rifles. https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/billions/state-summary/FL https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/billions/state-summary/FL You get a similar problem with saltwater intrusion where, yes, it's never not been a phenomenon but now it's affecting a lot more people than it used to: https://southeastfloridaclimatecompact.org/initiative/climate-indicators-salt-water-intrustion/ https://southeastfloridaclimatecompact.org/initiative/climat...
  - slibhb 6mo ago
    Hurricanes do more dollars in damage because we're richer and there's more capital near the coast. The idea that climate change caused hurricanes which spread insects is not impossible but seems unlikely. I don't think the statistical methods exist to prove it.
    - caminante 6mo ago
      Valuations have skyrocketed and insurance premiums are insane. I love the stories about people in FL self-insuring now because it's cheaper to repair drywall than pay premiums.
  - 6mo ago
patwolf 6mo ago
Regardless of the debate of whether climate change has intensified hurricanes, it seems odd to blame hurricanes for being a vector for spreading the bugs. Wouldn't the bugs have spread via wind even if it wasn't climate change induced hurricane winds?
- wolfie69 6mo ago
  The hurricanes spread the insects rapidly over a very large area, within a few days. With so many hurricanes coming so frequently the areal coverage overwhelmed what could have been a response.
wolfie69 6mo ago
Native Floridian here... although the story does not mention it central FL was hit in 2004 by hurricanes Charley, Frances and Jeanne, and in 2005 was affected by Hurricane Wilma as well. Before that you have to go back to the 1940s before inland central Florida was affected by hurricane force winds. I think the article left that out for editorial reasons, the recent hurricanes in the past few years the article mentions really contributed to the final demise of the orange industry. And yes, you used to be able to go outside at night in March and April smell the beautiful scent of the orange blossoms. It is certainly something of "Old Florida" that I miss.

onlyrealcuzzo 7mo ago

Did this banana have seeds!? I've never seen one, but it looks awful. They were actually good?

mech422 7mo ago
I never had one, but apperently they tasted much better then the current variety (which IIRC, is in danger of suffering the same fate) IIRC, there was actually a huge marketing push because people wouldn't each the current variety ? PS - the old one didn't go 100% extinct, and you can get small numbers of them from specialty growers. Youtube has videos of people trying them (1) 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI
advisedwang 6mo ago
No, it didn't have seeds either. Have you ever had "banana flavor" candy that doesn't really taste like bananas? The flavoring is Isoamyl acetate, and I've heard suggestion that people called it banana flavor because it tasted more like Gros Michel. After switching to Cavendish banana the flavor name no longer made as much sense. Not sure how true it is though.
- advisedwang 6mo ago
  Someone in the thread linked to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ZtvpBoXzI, where Hank Green tells this same story... and tries a Gros Michel banana and says it doesn't taste like "banana flavor"
  - tomrod 6mo ago
    I had them. They are wonderful, and even creamy. I still love tiny red bananas though, they are so sweet!
- fuzzfactor 6mo ago
  Very true. The bananas I had as a child back in 1960 had the strong flavor of isoamyl acetate along with the natural bouquet of related flavors in lesser amounts. I hated it. The space-age banana popsicles were even worse because they were nothing but isoamyl acetate.

schlauerfox 6mo ago

Or the death of the American Chestnut the generation before, once so common its causually in a Christmas song, now all but gone.

fuzzfactor 6mo ago
Not to mention the loss of the 5-storey-tall coconut palms in South Florida back in the 1970's to Lethal Yellowing. The last resort treatment for these was tetracycline too but it did not save them. Plus they were not generally cultivated nor a local cash crop. These things used form a massive canopy or grove naturally in so many places, towering over the homes and undeveloped properties. Which is why so many old homes had the 3 inch thick white tiles on the roof. When one of the nuts comes down from up there it hits pretty hard, even if it's not a hurricane. Almost all virtually gone, and what's there now is really all the result of landscaping efforts ever since, using resistant varieties that are quite dwarf by comparison.

pg_bot 6mo ago

A similar thing happened in France in the 1850s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight

renewiltord 6mo ago

This banana has reached mythical banana status because of rarity. The flavor of various tropical bananas is way better. Both Taiwan and India have many varieties substantially better tasting than Gros Michel.