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I'll echo the sentiment that Monero seems like the "best" cryptocurrency in that it has all of the benefits of Bitcoin + actual privacy. And interestingly, it'

I'll echo the sentiment that Monero seems like the "best" cryptocurrency in that it has all of the benefits of Bitcoin + actual privacy. And interestingly, it's one of the least-used least-hyped options. It's as though we didn't actually want privacy in our money system. I think a hint into this is actually in one of these posted features: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/651 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/me... One of the reasons for building a proper payments system is "Casino games"...

littlecranky67 6mo ago
Privacy is available in bitcoin as a layer-2 solution such as Lightning. When Trump made the popular and media-broadcast bitcoin transaction during his campaign, he did so over lightning. Privacy alone is thus not a big reason to abandon bitcoin and move over to another chain.
puskavi 6mo ago
Its been made very difficult to actually buy it
- ddtaylor 6mo ago
  You can go to an ATM and purchase a coin and use a DEX to convert almost instantly.
  - catapart 6mo ago
    wouldn't that defeat the privacy purpose? wouldn't someone be able to see that it was your card in the ATM, when they traced back the monero as exchanged for a coin that was exchanged for your fiat? ETA: just to be clear - that's a genuine question. I don't know much about monero, so if it really is possible to have untraceable money, that seems like a prudent investment for precaution. I've just always assumed that digital money is inherently traceable, so I always assumed genuine privacy is a mirage. I assume I'm wrong about that, somehow, so I'm curious about the mechanisms of that anonymity.
    - resonious 6mo ago
      The DEX will likely leak the fact that you received the monero, but after that there is no more paper trail. So you can spend it as you like.
      - catapart 6mo ago
        so would that be a feature of monero-to-monero transactions? I'm still confused as to how it would actually be anonymous? like if I used another coin to exchange for monero, that's obviously traceable. so then I use monero to purchase something else which I then sell for other monero (or I just trade monero directly? if that's possible?). and I'm to believe that there's no way to trace that back and say "okay, monero from wallet X was traded to wallet Y" or whatever other intermediate steps (like"monero was spent on X from wallet A, and then X was resold using monero from wallet B")? like, assuming they don't get in to my wallet, no one would be able to track down a transaction on the chain to a wallet? Or they would be able to track it to a wallet, but they couldn't tie that wallet to me for... some reason? sorry to ask, but the website seems very light on any actual technical detail about how they are achieving their privacy claims - at least in terms I can parse to make them understandable to me.
        varispeed 6mo ago
        [dead]
        iamnothere 6mo ago
        The flagged post in reply to you is correct. Each transaction is buried in one time addresses and decoy addresses.
        catapart 6mo ago
        very cool, thanks! And since I can't respond to that poster, I'll say it here: thanks for that detailed answer! That definitely seems like a pretty anonymous system. I'm convinced that monero is a pretty private coin!
    - 6mo ago
tromp 6mo ago
Monero is far more bloated than Bitcoin, paying a high price for its privacy features, most of which (no visible amount or address) can be had while making even Bitcoin look bloated [1]. [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/grincoin/comments/mu88ow/comment/gv6dddu/ https://np.reddit.com/r/grincoin/comments/mu88ow/comment/gv6...
- rationalist 6mo ago
  > paying a high price Monero's transaction fees are less than Bitcoin's: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-xmr.html#log&3y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-xmr... And Monero's fees decrease with larger block sizes (Monero has dynamic block sizes) whereas Bitcoin has a fixed block size and fees must increase to compete to be included in the block.
  - tromp 6mo ago
    I wasn't talking about fees, but about chain size, utxo set size, and code complexity. Fees are always low when blocks are far from full.
    - rationalist 6mo ago
      > when blocks are far from full. And when they're not?
- MannyF 6mo ago
  But Monero transactions confirm more quickly, the first confirmation usually takes just two or three minutes.
nz 6mo ago
It seems that many high-quality things (or otherwise aspirational things) take on Esperanto names (disclosure, I am an Esperantist). While Monero is no doubt a cool crypto-currency, it is even cooler that it has inspired some crypto-curious people to learn Esperanto[1] instead! While I am here, I might as well give you a brief Esperanto lesson. Mono = money, ero = piece/quantum. So, "pano" = bread, "panero" = bread-crumb. Thus, "monero" = coin. Many previous international currencies (all of them created with Swiss involvement), were also given Esperanto names: Spesmilo (thousand speso's (speso is analogous to "penny")), Stelo (star). There is even a luxury watch-brand (from Switzerland) called "Movado", which is Esperanto for "Movement" (made back when watches were made with mechanical movements). And I also learned, from the linked thread (disclosure, I am a participant), that there is a soft-drink called "Mirinda". This is an adjective that means "awe-worthy". [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Esperanto/comments/1sobiko/comment/ogssh1t/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Esperanto/comments/1sobiko/comment/...
brightball 6mo ago
Part of the reason is that you can’t buy it on Coinbase.
- Hendrikto 6mo ago
  Because of government pressure. It was delisted by lots of exchanges purely based on government fear of privacy and independence, not any technical or demand reasons.
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    The CEX that do list it, it is essentially a trap. As soon as you do something with XMR they start freezing your account and demanding all sorts of KYC/AML. That is my experience after playing with it by pulling out a couple hundred $ and doing nothing with it other than putting it back on an exchange.
giancarlostoro 6mo ago
Coinbase doesnt sell it which annoys me, but probably due to legal regulation I am sure. Its a shame too, I think its probably one of the most interesting cryptocurrencies.
Hendrikto 6mo ago
> interestingly, it's one of the least-used least-hyped options. It's as though we didn't actually want privacy in our money system. There is lots of interest from individuals. But governments all around the world have done their best to suppress it. They indeed do not like privacy and independence. They are the ones who sued and pressured exchanges into delisting Monero.

littlecranky67 6mo ago

Privacy is available in bitcoin as a layer-2 solution such as Lightning. When Trump made the popular and media-broadcast bitcoin transaction during his campaign, he did so over lightning. Privacy alone is thus not a big reason to abandon bitcoin and move over to another chain.

puskavi 6mo ago

Its been made very difficult to actually buy it

ddtaylor 6mo ago
You can go to an ATM and purchase a coin and use a DEX to convert almost instantly.
- catapart 6mo ago
  wouldn't that defeat the privacy purpose? wouldn't someone be able to see that it was your card in the ATM, when they traced back the monero as exchanged for a coin that was exchanged for your fiat? ETA: just to be clear - that's a genuine question. I don't know much about monero, so if it really is possible to have untraceable money, that seems like a prudent investment for precaution. I've just always assumed that digital money is inherently traceable, so I always assumed genuine privacy is a mirage. I assume I'm wrong about that, somehow, so I'm curious about the mechanisms of that anonymity.
  - resonious 6mo ago
    The DEX will likely leak the fact that you received the monero, but after that there is no more paper trail. So you can spend it as you like.
    - catapart 6mo ago
      so would that be a feature of monero-to-monero transactions? I'm still confused as to how it would actually be anonymous? like if I used another coin to exchange for monero, that's obviously traceable. so then I use monero to purchase something else which I then sell for other monero (or I just trade monero directly? if that's possible?). and I'm to believe that there's no way to trace that back and say "okay, monero from wallet X was traded to wallet Y" or whatever other intermediate steps (like"monero was spent on X from wallet A, and then X was resold using monero from wallet B")? like, assuming they don't get in to my wallet, no one would be able to track down a transaction on the chain to a wallet? Or they would be able to track it to a wallet, but they couldn't tie that wallet to me for... some reason? sorry to ask, but the website seems very light on any actual technical detail about how they are achieving their privacy claims - at least in terms I can parse to make them understandable to me.
      - varispeed 6mo ago
        [dead]
      - iamnothere 6mo ago
        The flagged post in reply to you is correct. Each transaction is buried in one time addresses and decoy addresses.
        catapart 6mo ago
        very cool, thanks! And since I can't respond to that poster, I'll say it here: thanks for that detailed answer! That definitely seems like a pretty anonymous system. I'm convinced that monero is a pretty private coin!
  - 6mo ago

tromp 6mo ago

Monero is far more bloated than Bitcoin, paying a high price for its privacy features, most of which (no visible amount or address) can be had while making even Bitcoin look bloated [1]. [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/grincoin/comments/mu88ow/comment/gv6dddu/ https://np.reddit.com/r/grincoin/comments/mu88ow/comment/gv6...

rationalist 6mo ago
> paying a high price Monero's transaction fees are less than Bitcoin's: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-xmr.html#log&3y https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-xmr... And Monero's fees decrease with larger block sizes (Monero has dynamic block sizes) whereas Bitcoin has a fixed block size and fees must increase to compete to be included in the block.
- tromp 6mo ago
  I wasn't talking about fees, but about chain size, utxo set size, and code complexity. Fees are always low when blocks are far from full.
  - rationalist 6mo ago
    > when blocks are far from full. And when they're not?
MannyF 6mo ago
But Monero transactions confirm more quickly, the first confirmation usually takes just two or three minutes.

nz 6mo ago

It seems that many high-quality things (or otherwise aspirational things) take on Esperanto names (disclosure, I am an Esperantist). While Monero is no doubt a cool crypto-currency, it is even cooler that it has inspired some crypto-curious people to learn Esperanto[1] instead! While I am here, I might as well give you a brief Esperanto lesson. Mono = money, ero = piece/quantum. So, "pano" = bread, "panero" = bread-crumb. Thus, "monero" = coin. Many previous international currencies (all of them created with Swiss involvement), were also given Esperanto names: Spesmilo (thousand speso's (speso is analogous to "penny")), Stelo (star). There is even a luxury watch-brand (from Switzerland) called "Movado", which is Esperanto for "Movement" (made back when watches were made with mechanical movements). And I also learned, from the linked thread (disclosure, I am a participant), that there is a soft-drink called "Mirinda". This is an adjective that means "awe-worthy". [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Esperanto/comments/1sobiko/comment/ogssh1t/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Esperanto/comments/1sobiko/comment/...

brightball 6mo ago

Part of the reason is that you can’t buy it on Coinbase.

Hendrikto 6mo ago
Because of government pressure. It was delisted by lots of exchanges purely based on government fear of privacy and independence, not any technical or demand reasons.
- mothballed 6mo ago
  The CEX that do list it, it is essentially a trap. As soon as you do something with XMR they start freezing your account and demanding all sorts of KYC/AML. That is my experience after playing with it by pulling out a couple hundred $ and doing nothing with it other than putting it back on an exchange.

giancarlostoro 6mo ago

Coinbase doesnt sell it which annoys me, but probably due to legal regulation I am sure. Its a shame too, I think its probably one of the most interesting cryptocurrencies.

Hendrikto 6mo ago

> interestingly, it's one of the least-used least-hyped options. It's as though we didn't actually want privacy in our money system. There is lots of interest from individuals. But governments all around the world have done their best to suppress it. They indeed do not like privacy and independence. They are the ones who sued and pressured exchanges into delisting Monero.