4 ms·

I don't intend to be a contrairian purely to be one, but Apple is the same company that (to paraphrase) wanted to "see Saurik cry". This being hackernews, I ho

I don't intend to be a contrairian purely to be one, but Apple is the same company that (to paraphrase) wanted to "see Saurik cry". This being hackernews, I hope to be excused for siding with a white hat code-hacker over a trillion dollar corporate. (And that's not getting into all the other morally questionable stuff they've done.)

Ygg2 6mo ago
How dare you insult the forty gazillion company! Stand back ma'am I'll protect you from this handsome hacker ruffian! Jokes aside, I have started to see Microslop as the lesser of two evils (two evils being MSFT and AAPL, Google being its own parallel universe abomination). Their commitment to backward compatibility really paved the way to cheap PCs for the masses. That said, every day Macroslop is working diligently to prove me wrong.
- pcblues 6mo ago
  4 kings. Wipe if you think you can do better :) It can and has been done.
  - snypher 6mo ago
    4 horseman, you're welcome.
- DeathArrow 6mo ago
  Microsoft doesn't give 2 cents now on desktops and desktop software. They care about selling cloud and cloud products. Since they can't charge a subscription for Windows (like Adobe does for its products), they don't care about it anymore.
  - radiator 6mo ago
    Why can't they charge a subscription for windows? It could be only a small yearly fee.
    - sheiyei 6mo ago
      Because Windows is a garbage product and they would quickly wipe out its userbase by doing that.
    - MSFT_Edging 6mo ago
      It's primary benefit is that it comes free with the laptop they bought on Amazon. Once there's friction there, it'll make other friction seem less bad.
      - radiator 6mo ago
        Maybe they could find another way to market it, e.g. Windows is free but with ads, and there is a subscription which makes ads go away. Or something else. Some creativity is needed.
  - hnlmorg 6mo ago
    Do they no longer charge annual licenses for Windows Server? On that topic, it’s always surprised me just how little Apple invest into their enterprise / business backend services. Everything about the way they integrate Macs into businesses is awkward. Apple could make so much money there if they wanted to. It’s a real missed opportunity.
    - dangus 6mo ago
      The issue is that nobody (relatively speaking) uses Windows Server. I don’t even think Microsoft is all that adamant that their customers use it. It’s just not competitive with Linux and that ship has sailed. Linux is better and costs $0. Microsoft lets you run .NET applications on Linux and they’re better there. I think the same thing happened with SQL Server. Nobody’s choosing it for new projects, its niche is basically legacy software. I agree that Apple is missing an opportunity with business and enterprise but I think the issue is that they’re so far behind that catching up would be a massive investment that might never pay off. This is similar to saying that Microsoft missed an opportunity with smartphone ecosystems. They could spend billions on getting a smartphone back on the market and it would arrive and everyone would ask the question “why am I buying this when my iPhone has X million apps on its store and is a nearly perfect device?” If Apple Enterprise Cloud was available today who is switching and why? Apple would have to undercut established players to convince businesses to switch via a massive migration effort.
      - mapontosevenths 6mo ago
        I work with fortune 500 clients, and all of them use Windows server for something. Usually a lot of somethings. For example: Active Directory. If we look at Microsoft's revenue I think it's pretty clear that they do in fact care an awful lot about Windows Server - or at least should. In fiscal year 2025, Microsoft Corporation's revenue by segment: Devices: $17.31 B Dynamics Products And Cloud Services: $7.83 B Enterprise Services: $7.76 B Gaming: $23.46 B Linked In Corporation: $17.81 B Microsoft Three Six Five Commercial Products And Cloud Services: $87.77 B Microsoft Three Six Five Consumer Products and Cloud Services: $7.40 B Other Products And Services: $72.00 M Search Advertising: $13.88 B Search And News Advertising: $13.88 B Server Products And Cloud Services: $98.44 B Server Products And Tools: $98.44 B Windows: $17.31 B
  - dreamcompiler 6mo ago
    I get the impression they care very much about windows because they can sell ads on it.
  - Ygg2 6mo ago
    I don't disagree. A big reason 2026 is the Year of the Desktop Linux is that MSFT lost any interest in the Desktop PC platform. Outside selling more of my data and filling it with AI Slop. But if, say, AAPL had won the PC wars, we'd be staring at a much more locked-down, much more expensive OS experience.
- stavros 6mo ago
  Apple basically spearheaded the war on general computation. Before them, phones used to be more or less open, Apple cracked down on that very quickly.
  - dvdkon 6mo ago
    Well, before Apple, most phones were appliances with fixed software; there was no openness to speak of. That said, I wish they hadn't continued this trend and instead took inspiration from Windows Mobile.
    - Karliss 6mo ago
      Before iphone mobile phones were running Java applets, which were sometimes even compatible across different phone manufacturers and users even could exchange them over infrared. In contrast first iPhone initially had no support for third party software, only web apps.
      - throw0101d 6mo ago
        > Before iphone mobile phones were running Java applets, which were sometimes even compatible across different phone manufacturers and users even could exchange them over infrared. "Sometimes" doing a lot of heavy lifting. Nokia had an app store, and before you could see the available apps you have to first choose your phone: because even with-in Nokia's own product range there was so much variation in screens, keyboards, and general capabilities that they had to pre-apply a filter to show you what would actually work.
      - naravara 6mo ago
        Functionally nobody was doing any of those things.
    - Ygg2 6mo ago
      Sure, at the start, yes. But then came Java and Wap. You could, in theory, download a jar from a site and try to run it. God knows if it would run. But it wasn't a locked-down app store that bypassing would land you in hot water.
throawayonthe 6mo ago
trying to find the context, saurik seemsto be Jay Freeman[0], known for Cydia[1]; i'm guessing apple was 'unhappy' about his work around software for jailbroken iphones, but nothing immediately popped up, what did they do? oh i guess it's from a court hearing[2] when his company was suing apple over app store monopoly ("... they are talking about an iOS update that, quote, broke Cydia Impactor. Where they said, it feels too good to destroy someone's spirit. We did something else today that will kill him again with a little smiley emoticon.") [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Freeman [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia [2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18730843/75/saurikit-llc-v-apple-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18730843/75/saurikit-ll...
- user_7832 6mo ago
  Yeah thanks, I think that's the right quote. I think I found the original comment I had read (featuring a reply by saurik himself): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853055
sneak 6mo ago
Forget about saurik; they wanted to countermand their own customers using his code to do things on their own phones they bought from Apple. The contempt for their customers is palpable these days.

Ygg2 6mo ago

How dare you insult the forty gazillion company! Stand back ma'am I'll protect you from this handsome hacker ruffian! Jokes aside, I have started to see Microslop as the lesser of two evils (two evils being MSFT and AAPL, Google being its own parallel universe abomination). Their commitment to backward compatibility really paved the way to cheap PCs for the masses. That said, every day Macroslop is working diligently to prove me wrong.

pcblues 6mo ago
4 kings. Wipe if you think you can do better :) It can and has been done.
- snypher 6mo ago
  4 horseman, you're welcome.
DeathArrow 6mo ago
Microsoft doesn't give 2 cents now on desktops and desktop software. They care about selling cloud and cloud products. Since they can't charge a subscription for Windows (like Adobe does for its products), they don't care about it anymore.
- radiator 6mo ago
  Why can't they charge a subscription for windows? It could be only a small yearly fee.
  - sheiyei 6mo ago
    Because Windows is a garbage product and they would quickly wipe out its userbase by doing that.
  - MSFT_Edging 6mo ago
    It's primary benefit is that it comes free with the laptop they bought on Amazon. Once there's friction there, it'll make other friction seem less bad.
    - radiator 6mo ago
      Maybe they could find another way to market it, e.g. Windows is free but with ads, and there is a subscription which makes ads go away. Or something else. Some creativity is needed.
- hnlmorg 6mo ago
  Do they no longer charge annual licenses for Windows Server? On that topic, it’s always surprised me just how little Apple invest into their enterprise / business backend services. Everything about the way they integrate Macs into businesses is awkward. Apple could make so much money there if they wanted to. It’s a real missed opportunity.
  - dangus 6mo ago
    The issue is that nobody (relatively speaking) uses Windows Server. I don’t even think Microsoft is all that adamant that their customers use it. It’s just not competitive with Linux and that ship has sailed. Linux is better and costs $0. Microsoft lets you run .NET applications on Linux and they’re better there. I think the same thing happened with SQL Server. Nobody’s choosing it for new projects, its niche is basically legacy software. I agree that Apple is missing an opportunity with business and enterprise but I think the issue is that they’re so far behind that catching up would be a massive investment that might never pay off. This is similar to saying that Microsoft missed an opportunity with smartphone ecosystems. They could spend billions on getting a smartphone back on the market and it would arrive and everyone would ask the question “why am I buying this when my iPhone has X million apps on its store and is a nearly perfect device?” If Apple Enterprise Cloud was available today who is switching and why? Apple would have to undercut established players to convince businesses to switch via a massive migration effort.
    - mapontosevenths 6mo ago
      I work with fortune 500 clients, and all of them use Windows server for something. Usually a lot of somethings. For example: Active Directory. If we look at Microsoft's revenue I think it's pretty clear that they do in fact care an awful lot about Windows Server - or at least should. In fiscal year 2025, Microsoft Corporation's revenue by segment: Devices: $17.31 B Dynamics Products And Cloud Services: $7.83 B Enterprise Services: $7.76 B Gaming: $23.46 B Linked In Corporation: $17.81 B Microsoft Three Six Five Commercial Products And Cloud Services: $87.77 B Microsoft Three Six Five Consumer Products and Cloud Services: $7.40 B Other Products And Services: $72.00 M Search Advertising: $13.88 B Search And News Advertising: $13.88 B Server Products And Cloud Services: $98.44 B Server Products And Tools: $98.44 B Windows: $17.31 B
- dreamcompiler 6mo ago
  I get the impression they care very much about windows because they can sell ads on it.
- Ygg2 6mo ago
  I don't disagree. A big reason 2026 is the Year of the Desktop Linux is that MSFT lost any interest in the Desktop PC platform. Outside selling more of my data and filling it with AI Slop. But if, say, AAPL had won the PC wars, we'd be staring at a much more locked-down, much more expensive OS experience.
stavros 6mo ago
Apple basically spearheaded the war on general computation. Before them, phones used to be more or less open, Apple cracked down on that very quickly.
- dvdkon 6mo ago
  Well, before Apple, most phones were appliances with fixed software; there was no openness to speak of. That said, I wish they hadn't continued this trend and instead took inspiration from Windows Mobile.
  - Karliss 6mo ago
    Before iphone mobile phones were running Java applets, which were sometimes even compatible across different phone manufacturers and users even could exchange them over infrared. In contrast first iPhone initially had no support for third party software, only web apps.
    - throw0101d 6mo ago
      > Before iphone mobile phones were running Java applets, which were sometimes even compatible across different phone manufacturers and users even could exchange them over infrared. "Sometimes" doing a lot of heavy lifting. Nokia had an app store, and before you could see the available apps you have to first choose your phone: because even with-in Nokia's own product range there was so much variation in screens, keyboards, and general capabilities that they had to pre-apply a filter to show you what would actually work.
    - naravara 6mo ago
      Functionally nobody was doing any of those things.
  - Ygg2 6mo ago
    Sure, at the start, yes. But then came Java and Wap. You could, in theory, download a jar from a site and try to run it. God knows if it would run. But it wasn't a locked-down app store that bypassing would land you in hot water.

throawayonthe 6mo ago

trying to find the context, saurik seemsto be Jay Freeman[0], known for Cydia[1]; i'm guessing apple was 'unhappy' about his work around software for jailbroken iphones, but nothing immediately popped up, what did they do? oh i guess it's from a court hearing[2] when his company was suing apple over app store monopoly ("... they are talking about an iOS update that, quote, broke Cydia Impactor. Where they said, it feels too good to destroy someone's spirit. We did something else today that will kill him again with a little smiley emoticon.") [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Freeman [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia [2] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18730843/75/saurikit-llc-v-apple-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/18730843/75/saurikit-ll...

user_7832 6mo ago
Yeah thanks, I think that's the right quote. I think I found the original comment I had read (featuring a reply by saurik himself): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43853055

sneak 6mo ago

Forget about saurik; they wanted to countermand their own customers using his code to do things on their own phones they bought from Apple. The contempt for their customers is palpable these days.