6 ms·

With cameras you don't care about every mm of width, nor about how resistant it is to falls. With phones you do. I, for one, don't welcome that change. I'd be

by kolinko 6mo ago

With cameras you don't care about every mm of width, nor about how resistant it is to falls. With phones you do. I, for one, don't welcome that change. I'd be ok with paying someone a bit extra to replace the battery. I mean, I'd be ok if I had a battery die in my phone in the last 10 years, which I don't remember it did.

piskov 6mo ago
The main issue of paying someone to teplace the battery is procuring the battery in the first place. For example, good luck finding good apple batteries in regions where there is no official apple service. Most Chinese parts are inferior: for example rates for max 500 cycles instead of 1000
- kennywinker 6mo ago
  Just to clarify something: afaik official apple batteries are “chinese” in origin.
  - piskov 6mo ago
    Sure, but that doesn’t mean every chinese battery is the same. For some reason there are no 3rd-party batteries of the same quality as Apple’s. And Apple doesn’t distribute them freely to other countries.
    - kennywinker 6mo ago
      You can just say “aftermarket” or “knockoff” or even “3rd party”. They all get the same point across and don’t rely on an outdated stereotype about chinese manufacturing.
      - piskov 6mo ago
        Stereotypes are not fiction. Become a nation that cherishes quality and this will change. Noone forced them to produce junk, manufacturing prowess nonwithstanding
rythie 6mo ago
Both of those things are also important in cameras, there is even sites that compare the size such as https://camerasize.com/ https://camerasize.com/. Cameras have got smaller in recent years and it makes the size makes a big difference to whether you take it with you on not or fits in your pocket or not for compact cameras. Ricoh’s gr4 camera is 0.5mm thinner than the previous model (gr3). Cameras are essentially smaller than they would be otherwise because they have replaceable batteries. People who need at more power usually use several batteries rather than use a bigger camera with more capacity. Cameras also need to withstand drops for similar reasons to phones, it’s in you hand and you could drop it, also tripods can fall over, car mounts fall off etc.
spaqin 6mo ago
We've had thin smartphones with replaceable batteries 15 years ago. That was the standard. Galaxy S5 was the last one in that series, and it's not looking too different from today. It was even IP rated for water! Batteries also don't really die, but you get shorter and shorter life. When a device that barely could make it through 2 days of use now survives for less than one, an "upgrade" seems nicer than it really would've been if you could just swap the battery.
- pnw 6mo ago
  The S5 was IP67 rated but only if the USB port flap was sealed. Modern phones like the S24 and iPhones are IP68 rated without covers. As someone who spends a lot of time outdoors in the rain, giving up superior IP68 water resistance for a replaceable battery that I'll never replace will be a downgrade for me.
  - andrelaszlo 6mo ago
    "...that I'll never replace", I mean you will replace the whole phone, including the battery? (Unless this is your last phone, in which case you won't be affected anyway :P)
  - kennywinker 6mo ago
    Do you toss it in the trash when you’re done? Pop it in a drawer to rot? Ewaste will bury us all, conflict minerals and all. Replaceable batteries are a net good for humanity, and i personally believe that the smart people at phone companies can solve the problem of waterproofing even with replaceable batteries
    - pnw 6mo ago
      I trade the phone in for the new model as God and Steve Jobs intended.
      - kennywinker 6mo ago
        Right. So ewaste.
bityard 6mo ago
I don't care about every mm of width, and don't understand those that do. A phone up to 3/4" fits into any pocket that a 1/4" one does. I had multiple android phones with replaceable batteries and many were no thicker than modern phones, especially once you've added the protective case.
virtualritz 6mo ago
Not sure what replacable has to do with thickness. When I bought my first smartpone, a Moto G (1st gen) it was as flat as any phone most people carried around at the time (2014, I think). And the battery was replaceable. I think also Samsung phones had replaceable batteries then. And this was the case for a few years after. Until it wasn't. Devices didn't suddenly get thin when batteries were glued in. Why would they?
- jpollock 6mo ago
  A replaceable battery needs protection. One in the device gets protection from the device.
  - virtualritz 6mo ago
    The replaceable battery is still inside the case. How is it more protected because "glue"? I also replaced glued batteries in phones following ifixit instructions a few times (using a hair dryer/heat gun). They didn't have any less or more "protection" than the replaceable ones. They looked exactly the same apart from the connectors ofc. Please substantiate your claim. Until then I call it BS.
- petterroea 6mo ago
  The Samsung S5 was very thin. Too thin imo. And it had a replaceable battery
  - gnabgib 6mo ago
    I'm not sure about too thin (although I switched to the qi-charging back after a year), the replacements /where/ thinner.. but lost the IR blaster, replaceable battery, eventually μSD housing, eventually headphone jack.
    - petterroea 6mo ago
      I don't know, it just felt flimsy. But in almost a "flimsy meaning it can handle a beating" way. It sure did. I did ruin the water protection on mine pretty quickly though, because the back panel was made of plastic and was... flimsy. It basically became a fidget toy. When thinking of how flagship phone producers are going to keep making sexy phones that also keep their watertightness, my biggest worry is repeated stress from any removable component becoming a fidget toy
kennywinker 6mo ago
Personally I’m confused why people say they want a thinner phone while carrying a phone that’s keeps getting larger every model. When was the last time you kept a phone longer than 2-3 years? That’d explain why you haven’t had one die. Assuming you do get a new phone regularly, easy battery replacement will probably help the resale value of your own a fair bit - the labour cost of a battery replacement is priced into most older phones on the second hand market.
- ghshephard 6mo ago
  My average time on a smartphone is now at 4 years, feels like it's going to 5 pretty soon. [Last upgrade was for USB-C. Next upgrade will be for on-device LLM. It's wild how approximately 0% of what Apple has done outside of the USB-C connector has mattered to me in the last 10+ years - low-light photography is probably the only other thing that comes to mind. ] I've had two battery replacements since 2015. One of them was required, the other was mostly optional (battery had dropped to 90% on my iPhone - which was probably sufficient). USB-C - that was an awesome requirement that it was unclear whether Apple was ever going to do. User Replaceable Battery? Zero desire, particularly if it reduces water resistance on the device. Dozens of things I've wanted from a phone - being able to replace the battery has never even entered my mind as something I wanted.
  - neves 6mo ago
    Note that your 2 best features were usb-c and replacement batteries. Both were government mandated against unethical behavior of Apple. That's what governments are for.
    - rootusrootus 6mo ago
      Apple had been switching their various iOS devices to USB-C for several years before the EU decided to mandate it, so I don't know how you can assert that them switching the iPhone to USB-C was because they were forced to. It looks more like the EU just had lucky timing and told them to do something they were already doing.
tredre3 6mo ago
Just to be clear replaceable doesn't mean removable/hot-swappable in this context. There doesn't have to be a battery compartment, the battery can still be glued in place. The phone can still be sealed. Manufacturers only have to make it possible for users to open and close the phone to replace the battery without damage, using common tools.
numpad0 6mo ago
Most digital cameras above mid ranges are made of painted Magnesium alloy material for both weight and durability. Only cosmetic parts are made of Aluminum and plastics. They don't talk much about those because all the remaining companies in the market are from one same country that don't speak English that isn't China, and there is no differentiation to be made in that area.
thrownthatway 6mo ago
> care about every mm of width I think you mean thickness? Extra width is sold as a feature. I don’t understand the obsession with reducing thickness. Why is a thinner phone more desirable than a thicken one?
- drw85 6mo ago
  I don't think it is more desirable, the iPhone Air has reportedly sold way below expectations.

by kolinko 6mo ago

piskov 6mo ago

The main issue of paying someone to teplace the battery is procuring the battery in the first place. For example, good luck finding good apple batteries in regions where there is no official apple service. Most Chinese parts are inferior: for example rates for max 500 cycles instead of 1000

kennywinker 6mo ago
Just to clarify something: afaik official apple batteries are “chinese” in origin.
- piskov 6mo ago
  Sure, but that doesn’t mean every chinese battery is the same. For some reason there are no 3rd-party batteries of the same quality as Apple’s. And Apple doesn’t distribute them freely to other countries.
  - kennywinker 6mo ago
    You can just say “aftermarket” or “knockoff” or even “3rd party”. They all get the same point across and don’t rely on an outdated stereotype about chinese manufacturing.
    - piskov 6mo ago
      Stereotypes are not fiction. Become a nation that cherishes quality and this will change. Noone forced them to produce junk, manufacturing prowess nonwithstanding

rythie 6mo ago

Both of those things are also important in cameras, there is even sites that compare the size such as https://camerasize.com/ https://camerasize.com/. Cameras have got smaller in recent years and it makes the size makes a big difference to whether you take it with you on not or fits in your pocket or not for compact cameras. Ricoh’s gr4 camera is 0.5mm thinner than the previous model (gr3). Cameras are essentially smaller than they would be otherwise because they have replaceable batteries. People who need at more power usually use several batteries rather than use a bigger camera with more capacity. Cameras also need to withstand drops for similar reasons to phones, it’s in you hand and you could drop it, also tripods can fall over, car mounts fall off etc.

spaqin 6mo ago

We've had thin smartphones with replaceable batteries 15 years ago. That was the standard. Galaxy S5 was the last one in that series, and it's not looking too different from today. It was even IP rated for water! Batteries also don't really die, but you get shorter and shorter life. When a device that barely could make it through 2 days of use now survives for less than one, an "upgrade" seems nicer than it really would've been if you could just swap the battery.

pnw 6mo ago
The S5 was IP67 rated but only if the USB port flap was sealed. Modern phones like the S24 and iPhones are IP68 rated without covers. As someone who spends a lot of time outdoors in the rain, giving up superior IP68 water resistance for a replaceable battery that I'll never replace will be a downgrade for me.
- andrelaszlo 6mo ago
  "...that I'll never replace", I mean you will replace the whole phone, including the battery? (Unless this is your last phone, in which case you won't be affected anyway :P)
- kennywinker 6mo ago
  Do you toss it in the trash when you’re done? Pop it in a drawer to rot? Ewaste will bury us all, conflict minerals and all. Replaceable batteries are a net good for humanity, and i personally believe that the smart people at phone companies can solve the problem of waterproofing even with replaceable batteries
  - pnw 6mo ago
    I trade the phone in for the new model as God and Steve Jobs intended.
    - kennywinker 6mo ago
      Right. So ewaste.

bityard 6mo ago

I don't care about every mm of width, and don't understand those that do. A phone up to 3/4" fits into any pocket that a 1/4" one does. I had multiple android phones with replaceable batteries and many were no thicker than modern phones, especially once you've added the protective case.

virtualritz 6mo ago

Not sure what replacable has to do with thickness. When I bought my first smartpone, a Moto G (1st gen) it was as flat as any phone most people carried around at the time (2014, I think). And the battery was replaceable. I think also Samsung phones had replaceable batteries then. And this was the case for a few years after. Until it wasn't. Devices didn't suddenly get thin when batteries were glued in. Why would they?

jpollock 6mo ago
A replaceable battery needs protection. One in the device gets protection from the device.
- virtualritz 6mo ago
  The replaceable battery is still inside the case. How is it more protected because "glue"? I also replaced glued batteries in phones following ifixit instructions a few times (using a hair dryer/heat gun). They didn't have any less or more "protection" than the replaceable ones. They looked exactly the same apart from the connectors ofc. Please substantiate your claim. Until then I call it BS.
petterroea 6mo ago
The Samsung S5 was very thin. Too thin imo. And it had a replaceable battery
- gnabgib 6mo ago
  I'm not sure about too thin (although I switched to the qi-charging back after a year), the replacements /where/ thinner.. but lost the IR blaster, replaceable battery, eventually μSD housing, eventually headphone jack.
  - petterroea 6mo ago
    I don't know, it just felt flimsy. But in almost a "flimsy meaning it can handle a beating" way. It sure did. I did ruin the water protection on mine pretty quickly though, because the back panel was made of plastic and was... flimsy. It basically became a fidget toy. When thinking of how flagship phone producers are going to keep making sexy phones that also keep their watertightness, my biggest worry is repeated stress from any removable component becoming a fidget toy

kennywinker 6mo ago

Personally I’m confused why people say they want a thinner phone while carrying a phone that’s keeps getting larger every model. When was the last time you kept a phone longer than 2-3 years? That’d explain why you haven’t had one die. Assuming you do get a new phone regularly, easy battery replacement will probably help the resale value of your own a fair bit - the labour cost of a battery replacement is priced into most older phones on the second hand market.

ghshephard 6mo ago
My average time on a smartphone is now at 4 years, feels like it's going to 5 pretty soon. [Last upgrade was for USB-C. Next upgrade will be for on-device LLM. It's wild how approximately 0% of what Apple has done outside of the USB-C connector has mattered to me in the last 10+ years - low-light photography is probably the only other thing that comes to mind. ] I've had two battery replacements since 2015. One of them was required, the other was mostly optional (battery had dropped to 90% on my iPhone - which was probably sufficient). USB-C - that was an awesome requirement that it was unclear whether Apple was ever going to do. User Replaceable Battery? Zero desire, particularly if it reduces water resistance on the device. Dozens of things I've wanted from a phone - being able to replace the battery has never even entered my mind as something I wanted.
- neves 6mo ago
  Note that your 2 best features were usb-c and replacement batteries. Both were government mandated against unethical behavior of Apple. That's what governments are for.
  - rootusrootus 6mo ago
    Apple had been switching their various iOS devices to USB-C for several years before the EU decided to mandate it, so I don't know how you can assert that them switching the iPhone to USB-C was because they were forced to. It looks more like the EU just had lucky timing and told them to do something they were already doing.

tredre3 6mo ago

Just to be clear replaceable doesn't mean removable/hot-swappable in this context. There doesn't have to be a battery compartment, the battery can still be glued in place. The phone can still be sealed. Manufacturers only have to make it possible for users to open and close the phone to replace the battery without damage, using common tools.

numpad0 6mo ago

Most digital cameras above mid ranges are made of painted Magnesium alloy material for both weight and durability. Only cosmetic parts are made of Aluminum and plastics. They don't talk much about those because all the remaining companies in the market are from one same country that don't speak English that isn't China, and there is no differentiation to be made in that area.

thrownthatway 6mo ago

> care about every mm of width I think you mean thickness? Extra width is sold as a feature. I don’t understand the obsession with reducing thickness. Why is a thinner phone more desirable than a thicken one?

drw85 6mo ago
I don't think it is more desirable, the iPhone Air has reportedly sold way below expectations.