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This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1

by manquer 6mo ago

This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1,000 cycles and retain 80% battery. Specifically - B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) . Here is the link - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32023R1670 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Article 11 of the new regulation (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32023R1670 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...) covers exemptions but nothing to do with 1,000 cycles or Apple as far as i can see.

parl_match 6mo ago
> This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices It was not said that Apple was exempted. What was said is that Apple complied with the exemption rules.
- calf 6mo ago
  It was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication. The replier then pointed out the exemption rule is outdated therefore the implied consequence is wrong and the original line of reasoning was misinformation, and thus would be the greater error. Humans
  - parl_match 6mo ago
    > It was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication It really, really wasn't. All it said is that Apple became compliant with their current offerings. Now you're contorting to dig your heels in, so I think this conversation is over. Have a good day.
    - calf 6mo ago
      It really, really was. It's the most basic type of logical implication. It said: IF BatteryCycles THEN Exempt. BatteryCycles(Apple). By first order logic modus ponens this results in: Exempt(Apple) This is basic math literacy by now. The fact that you do not seem aware and are being confidently rude about it is worth pointing out. Don't do that on HN. This is still a tech forum so try to respect rational discussion as we all abide by these shared rules in this space.
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
      - parl_match 6mo ago
        Again, it really, really wasn't. You can do all the contorting you want. Even your "math" here disagrees with you and you don't even realize it! The post stated "Apple devices", referring to currently produced Apple Devices. Not "Apple". Those are two separate things, you get that, right? I don't know what level of "basic math literacy" is required to understand that a company and a smartphone are separate things, but you don't seem to have it. Anyways yeah. I don't really owe someone who is repeatedly confidently wrong any further of my time. You seem determined to have the last word, so I will let you have it. Maybe lecture me about how you prove a Tim Cook is an iCloud with monads. Bye.
  - kstrauser 6mo ago
    The replier was wrong, though. They misread it and skipped over the part they thought wasn’t there.
    - calf 6mo ago
      They they're both wrong for separate reasons, hah. Edit: the person who posted the links is still saying they're right, it seems they found the wrong link and fixed it.
kube-system 6mo ago
> covers exemptions but nothing to do with 1,000 cycles or Apple as far as i can see. It appears what you're looking for is in B(5)(c)(ii). > (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement: > (i) meets the following criteria: > — fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable; > — the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools; > — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment; > — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman. > (ii) or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that > — the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a); > — after 500 full charge cycles the battery must have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity; > — the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity; > — the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes.
- kstrauser 6mo ago
  Jinx! Owe me a coke.
  - kube-system 6mo ago
    I ctrl-f'd a minute faster than you!
- manquer 6mo ago
  the mistake was in using the same link twice. It is the same URL. There is no Article 11 in the that link. You and other poster could have just web searched and corrected me, Here is the the actual link https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng
kstrauser 6mo ago
Your link says otherwise. From the Article 11 link, ANNEX II, A.1.1.(5): (a) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for replacement of the display assembly and of parts referred to in point 1(a), with the exception of the battery or batteries, meets the following criteria: [...] [...] (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement: (i) meets the following criteria: — fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable; - the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools; — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment; — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman. (ii) or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that: — the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a); — after 500 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity; — the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity; — the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes. --- So manufacturers must make the battery replaceable, or meet all the conditions from (a) for replacing non-battery components, and meet the 1000 cycle / 80% capacity requirement.
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  So if it weren't for that exemption, would iPhone batteries qualify? You can do it with regular tools and a YouTube tutorial, but it's not easy.
  - aetherspawn 6mo ago
    The tools are not regular. They’re teeny tiny security bits.
    - zuhsetaqi 6mo ago
      > a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools It's or, not and
thrownthatway 6mo ago
> B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) Written by the sub-sub-sub subcommittee… Europe will fall to the Russians, if the Russians can ever find it under all the piles of disused regulations.
manquer 6mo ago
Cannot edit this now Here is the actual link to new regulations https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng P.S. I had posted same link twice.

by manquer 6mo ago

parl_match 6mo ago

> This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices It was not said that Apple was exempted. What was said is that Apple complied with the exemption rules.

calf 6mo ago
It was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication. The replier then pointed out the exemption rule is outdated therefore the implied consequence is wrong and the original line of reasoning was misinformation, and thus would be the greater error. Humans
- parl_match 6mo ago
  > It was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication It really, really wasn't. All it said is that Apple became compliant with their current offerings. Now you're contorting to dig your heels in, so I think this conversation is over. Have a good day.
  - calf 6mo ago
    It really, really was. It's the most basic type of logical implication. It said: IF BatteryCycles THEN Exempt. BatteryCycles(Apple). By first order logic modus ponens this results in: Exempt(Apple) This is basic math literacy by now. The fact that you do not seem aware and are being confidently rude about it is worth pointing out. Don't do that on HN. This is still a tech forum so try to respect rational discussion as we all abide by these shared rules in this space.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - parl_match 6mo ago
      Again, it really, really wasn't. You can do all the contorting you want. Even your "math" here disagrees with you and you don't even realize it! The post stated "Apple devices", referring to currently produced Apple Devices. Not "Apple". Those are two separate things, you get that, right? I don't know what level of "basic math literacy" is required to understand that a company and a smartphone are separate things, but you don't seem to have it. Anyways yeah. I don't really owe someone who is repeatedly confidently wrong any further of my time. You seem determined to have the last word, so I will let you have it. Maybe lecture me about how you prove a Tim Cook is an iCloud with monads. Bye.
- kstrauser 6mo ago
  The replier was wrong, though. They misread it and skipped over the part they thought wasn’t there.
  - calf 6mo ago
    They they're both wrong for separate reasons, hah. Edit: the person who posted the links is still saying they're right, it seems they found the wrong link and fixed it.

kube-system 6mo ago

> covers exemptions but nothing to do with 1,000 cycles or Apple as far as i can see. It appears what you're looking for is in B(5)(c)(ii). > (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement: > (i) meets the following criteria: > — fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable; > — the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools; > — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment; > — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman. > (ii) or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that > — the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a); > — after 500 full charge cycles the battery must have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity; > — the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity; > — the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes.

kstrauser 6mo ago
Jinx! Owe me a coke.
- kube-system 6mo ago
  I ctrl-f'd a minute faster than you!
manquer 6mo ago
the mistake was in using the same link twice. It is the same URL. There is no Article 11 in the that link. You and other poster could have just web searched and corrected me, Here is the the actual link https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng

kstrauser 6mo ago

Your link says otherwise. From the Article 11 link, ANNEX II, A.1.1.(5): (a) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for replacement of the display assembly and of parts referred to in point 1(a), with the exception of the battery or batteries, meets the following criteria: [...] [...] (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement: (i) meets the following criteria: — fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable; - the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools; — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment; — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman. (ii) or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that: — the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a); — after 500 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity; — the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity; — the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes. --- So manufacturers must make the battery replaceable, or meet all the conditions from (a) for replacing non-battery components, and meet the 1000 cycle / 80% capacity requirement.

traderj0e 6mo ago
So if it weren't for that exemption, would iPhone batteries qualify? You can do it with regular tools and a YouTube tutorial, but it's not easy.
- aetherspawn 6mo ago
  The tools are not regular. They’re teeny tiny security bits.
  - zuhsetaqi 6mo ago
    > a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools It's or, not and

thrownthatway 6mo ago

> B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) Written by the sub-sub-sub subcommittee… Europe will fall to the Russians, if the Russians can ever find it under all the piles of disused regulations.

manquer 6mo ago

Cannot edit this now Here is the actual link to new regulations https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2023/1542/oj/eng P.S. I had posted same link twice.