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those judgements should be higher too I think this one was high because alex jones harassed parents of murdered children to the point where they had to move ou

those judgements should be higher too I think this one was high because alex jones harassed parents of murdered children to the point where they had to move out of the town their children were buried in. These people were harassed to the point of being afraid to visit the graves of their children. Sometimes examples need to be set in egregious cases.

mothballed 6mo ago
Alex Jones did not, as far as the evidence we have seen, harass the parents. Alex Jones did not direct anyone to harass the parents. Some of his viewers used Jones' statements as justification for harassments. Interestingly, as far as I know, nothing was pursued against the people harassing the parents. They went after the rich guy saying lies they didn't like, then depended on the fact no one besides the defense wants to side with someone who says such shockingly vicious lies about the facts surrounding dead kids.
- Shog9 6mo ago
  The defense - including Jones himself - also did a very poor job, so it's debatable whether anyone at all wanted a different outcome.
  - wat10000 6mo ago
    That's understating things rather substantially. He ignored court orders. He continued to defame the plaintiffs during the trial, including a statement on air that one of the plaintiff's death by suicide was actually a murder and part of the conspiracy. If you were sued and your objective was to lose as badly as possible and get as harsh a judgment as possible, it would look a lot like what Jones did here.
    - traderj0e 6mo ago
      That might have been his objective really. All that talk about the govt being after us for years, and now he can point to them forcing him to sell everything off, while he still maintains the same fanbase. But what can they do, he really deserved the judgement.
- micromacrofoot 6mo ago
  the lies they didn't like lead to the harassment, it's not at all complicated free speech doesn't absolve you of responsibility for the damages your words cause, despite not causing them directly
NoMoreNicksLeft 6mo ago
>Sometimes examples need to be set in egregious cases. And if he had been fined $35 million dollars, the example would have been set, they'd have been paid, and he'd have spent the next 20 years figuring out how much that award fucked him when he couldn't be insured for anything, when no one would touch him for any sort of gig worth having. He might have ended up destitute. But if you do the Dr. Evil "1 billion dollars!" thing, which he could never actually pay, the plaintiffs get nothing for all their misery, and the money he does hide in offshore accounts is there for him to loaf around on forever. Why is this so counterintuitive for everyone?
- tart-lemonade 6mo ago
  > He might have ended up destitute. But if you do the Dr. Evil "1 billion dollars!" thing, which he could never actually pay, the plaintiffs get nothing for all their misery, and the money he does hide in offshore accounts is there for him to loaf around on forever. Why is this so counterintuitive for everyone? He was busy hiding millions of dollars in assets well before the judgements were handed down [0]. He fraudulently declared bankruptcy in multiple shell companies to try and delay the proceedings [1]. He made no secret of the fact that he was going to do everything in his power to avoid giving a single dime to the Sandy Hook families, regardless of the outcome. He had known for years that he was lying, his own staff had repeatedly raised objections to his behavior in writing, and if the award was $35 million, that's only a few year's profits for him to sacrifice. For reference, his personal expenses are $100k/mo [2] and his previous salary was $1.4 million/yr [3]. On Infowars' best days, they would rake in $800k in profit [4]. Sure, those $800k days weren't super often, but they are still a cartoonishly profitable business by every measure. $35m would not be a real punishment. It should also be noted that $1.4b is the combined amount for all of the plaintiffs, not just one person. And this isn't an isolated incident; he's been defaming people his entire career, and every time he got a small judgement or was only required to apologize, he just went on to defame other people [5], and all the times he didn't get sued he never even apologized. He only cares about money, so that's how you send a message to him. Edit: I completely forgot to mention that the Sandy Hook families did offer to settle: $85 million paid over 10 years [6]. Jones countered with $55 million [7]. If Jones and his companies could afford $5.5m/yr, that says a lot about the profitability of the operation and the inadequacy of $35m. [0]: https://apnews.com/article/business-alex-jones-austin-texas-lawsuits-00b6df5205d733e31bfc1e4377edcd26 https://apnews.com/article/business-alex-jones-austin-texas-... [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61142905 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61142905 [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64644080 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64644080 [3]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-19/alex-jones-fights-in-bankruptcy-for-1-3-million-infowars-salary https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-19/alex-jone... [4]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-testifies-in-sandy-hook-defamation-trial-and-gets-caught-in-a-lie_n_62e92e2ae4b00fd8d8434726 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-testifies-in-sandy... [5]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones#Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones#Litigation [6]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/28/alex-jones-bankruptcy-sandy-hook-settlement/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/28/alex-jones-... [7]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-offers-to-pay-sandy-hook-families-55-million-for-lies-he-spread-about-school-shooting_n_657deab2e4b08e9b410a9217 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-offers-to-pay-sand...

mothballed 6mo ago

Alex Jones did not, as far as the evidence we have seen, harass the parents. Alex Jones did not direct anyone to harass the parents. Some of his viewers used Jones' statements as justification for harassments. Interestingly, as far as I know, nothing was pursued against the people harassing the parents. They went after the rich guy saying lies they didn't like, then depended on the fact no one besides the defense wants to side with someone who says such shockingly vicious lies about the facts surrounding dead kids.

Shog9 6mo ago
The defense - including Jones himself - also did a very poor job, so it's debatable whether anyone at all wanted a different outcome.
- wat10000 6mo ago
  That's understating things rather substantially. He ignored court orders. He continued to defame the plaintiffs during the trial, including a statement on air that one of the plaintiff's death by suicide was actually a murder and part of the conspiracy. If you were sued and your objective was to lose as badly as possible and get as harsh a judgment as possible, it would look a lot like what Jones did here.
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    That might have been his objective really. All that talk about the govt being after us for years, and now he can point to them forcing him to sell everything off, while he still maintains the same fanbase. But what can they do, he really deserved the judgement.
micromacrofoot 6mo ago
the lies they didn't like lead to the harassment, it's not at all complicated free speech doesn't absolve you of responsibility for the damages your words cause, despite not causing them directly

NoMoreNicksLeft 6mo ago

>Sometimes examples need to be set in egregious cases. And if he had been fined $35 million dollars, the example would have been set, they'd have been paid, and he'd have spent the next 20 years figuring out how much that award fucked him when he couldn't be insured for anything, when no one would touch him for any sort of gig worth having. He might have ended up destitute. But if you do the Dr. Evil "1 billion dollars!" thing, which he could never actually pay, the plaintiffs get nothing for all their misery, and the money he does hide in offshore accounts is there for him to loaf around on forever. Why is this so counterintuitive for everyone?

tart-lemonade 6mo ago
> He might have ended up destitute. But if you do the Dr. Evil "1 billion dollars!" thing, which he could never actually pay, the plaintiffs get nothing for all their misery, and the money he does hide in offshore accounts is there for him to loaf around on forever. Why is this so counterintuitive for everyone? He was busy hiding millions of dollars in assets well before the judgements were handed down [0]. He fraudulently declared bankruptcy in multiple shell companies to try and delay the proceedings [1]. He made no secret of the fact that he was going to do everything in his power to avoid giving a single dime to the Sandy Hook families, regardless of the outcome. He had known for years that he was lying, his own staff had repeatedly raised objections to his behavior in writing, and if the award was $35 million, that's only a few year's profits for him to sacrifice. For reference, his personal expenses are $100k/mo [2] and his previous salary was $1.4 million/yr [3]. On Infowars' best days, they would rake in $800k in profit [4]. Sure, those $800k days weren't super often, but they are still a cartoonishly profitable business by every measure. $35m would not be a real punishment. It should also be noted that $1.4b is the combined amount for all of the plaintiffs, not just one person. And this isn't an isolated incident; he's been defaming people his entire career, and every time he got a small judgement or was only required to apologize, he just went on to defame other people [5], and all the times he didn't get sued he never even apologized. He only cares about money, so that's how you send a message to him. Edit: I completely forgot to mention that the Sandy Hook families did offer to settle: $85 million paid over 10 years [6]. Jones countered with $55 million [7]. If Jones and his companies could afford $5.5m/yr, that says a lot about the profitability of the operation and the inadequacy of $35m. [0]: https://apnews.com/article/business-alex-jones-austin-texas-lawsuits-00b6df5205d733e31bfc1e4377edcd26 https://apnews.com/article/business-alex-jones-austin-texas-... [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61142905 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61142905 [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64644080 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64644080 [3]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-19/alex-jones-fights-in-bankruptcy-for-1-3-million-infowars-salary https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-19/alex-jone... [4]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-testifies-in-sandy-hook-defamation-trial-and-gets-caught-in-a-lie_n_62e92e2ae4b00fd8d8434726 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-testifies-in-sandy... [5]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones#Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones#Litigation [6]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/28/alex-jones-bankruptcy-sandy-hook-settlement/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/11/28/alex-jones-... [7]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-offers-to-pay-sandy-hook-families-55-million-for-lies-he-spread-about-school-shooting_n_657deab2e4b08e9b410a9217 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jones-offers-to-pay-sand...