4 ms·

Its amusing that Apple itself is one of the biggest ad companies that exists, fed entirely from their own users private data. Yet by simply pointing the finger

by alt227 6mo ago

Its amusing that Apple itself is one of the biggest ad companies that exists, fed entirely from their own users private data. Yet by simply pointing the finger away from themselves and helping their customers block other ad companies efforts, they seem to have gained complete trust of all their users and most dont even know how much Apple are making in ad revenue from their own data. https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/14/apples-4b-ad-business-at-odds-with-internal-culture-and-values https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/14/apples-4b-ad-busi...

nozzlegear 6mo ago
I trust Apple with my private data. I don't trust Google with it, and I don't trust Joe Blow's Sketchy Ass Apps & Ads Service with it. Simple as.
- nickburns 6mo ago
  Exactly. Amusing indeed.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
- microtonal 6mo ago
  Why do you trust Apple with your private data? Unless you enable ADP, iCloud backups are only encrypted at rest and not end-to-end. So, Apple, law enforcement, etc. can just read your iMessage or WhatsApp messages if needed. Did you enable ADP? Well good luck convincing everyone you communicate with to enable it as well, or their backups will still have all your chats without E2E encryption. WhatsApp pulls a similar trick on Android. It's E2E encrypted, but by default backups (done to Google Drive) are not. I think most users never enable encrypted backups. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a deal with law enforcement, where Apple and Meta can do and advertise E2E chats, but the defaults (which most users do not change) are such that law enforcement can still access them. But yeah, Apple and Google were part of PRISM too, so no big surprise I guess? If you truly care about privacy, either completely disable iCloud backups or get a GrapheneOS phone. Also use Signal, because they exclude themselves from phone backups by default. So either chats are not backed up or they are backed up through Signal's own E2E backup service.
  - Footprint0521 6mo ago
    Use signal and disable notification previews… Apple saves even cleared notification text previews on device, which the feds just used in a recent case…
inventor7777 6mo ago
Yes, that is very true. Unfortunately, without a true non-Apple or non-Google OS, the ATT toggle is likely about as good as you can get. And it does stop the apps themselves getting raw access to your data, which is not something to sniff at.
- fsflover 6mo ago
  A true non-Apple and non-Google OS already exists. Sent from my Librem 5 running GNU/Linux.
  - inventor7777 6mo ago
    Wow, that is neat! I had never heard of that before. However, they still have a long way to go to even equal the capabilities of normal phones made by huge companies for a typical consumer. Whether that is normal app support or even just simple stuff like camera quality. Although...that was likely never the main goal for that phone anyway.
frumplestlatz 6mo ago
The article you cite refutes your claim, explicitly bringing up the lack of access to user data. I frankly don’t care if the App Store has advertisements. I would care if my data is (1) available to Apple to read by virtue of not being e2e encrypted, and (2) used to train models and target those advertisements.
- fsflover 6mo ago
  > I would care if my data is (1) available to Apple to read by virtue of not being e2e encrypted, and (2) used to train models and target those advertisements. Here we go: Apple fined $8.5M for illegally collecting iPhone owners' data for ads (gizmodo.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34299433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34299433 Keeping your data from Apple is harder than expected (aalto.fi) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927657 Apple silently uploads your passwords and keeps them (lapcatsoftware.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42014588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42014588 Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself (theregister.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 Apple memory holed its broken promise for an OCSP opt-out (lapcatsoftware.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41184153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41184153 Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS (therecord.media) [but Apple still collects a lot!] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261
- alt227 6mo ago
  I dont mean to be rude but you obviously dont do much research about companies you seem to care a lot about. Apple have been caught time and time again undermining their users security and privacy, including syphoning off user data to government agencies etc. The sibling post cites enough reading to be getting on with, but heres a few more of my favourites for good measure: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/12/apple-getting-sued-over-app-store-user-data-collection https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/12/apple-getting-sue... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-contractors-regularly-hear-confidential-details-on-siri-recordings https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-con... https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments...

by alt227 6mo ago

nozzlegear 6mo ago

I trust Apple with my private data. I don't trust Google with it, and I don't trust Joe Blow's Sketchy Ass Apps & Ads Service with it. Simple as.

nickburns 6mo ago
Exactly. Amusing indeed.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
microtonal 6mo ago
Why do you trust Apple with your private data? Unless you enable ADP, iCloud backups are only encrypted at rest and not end-to-end. So, Apple, law enforcement, etc. can just read your iMessage or WhatsApp messages if needed. Did you enable ADP? Well good luck convincing everyone you communicate with to enable it as well, or their backups will still have all your chats without E2E encryption. WhatsApp pulls a similar trick on Android. It's E2E encrypted, but by default backups (done to Google Drive) are not. I think most users never enable encrypted backups. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a deal with law enforcement, where Apple and Meta can do and advertise E2E chats, but the defaults (which most users do not change) are such that law enforcement can still access them. But yeah, Apple and Google were part of PRISM too, so no big surprise I guess? If you truly care about privacy, either completely disable iCloud backups or get a GrapheneOS phone. Also use Signal, because they exclude themselves from phone backups by default. So either chats are not backed up or they are backed up through Signal's own E2E backup service.
- Footprint0521 6mo ago
  Use signal and disable notification previews… Apple saves even cleared notification text previews on device, which the feds just used in a recent case…

inventor7777 6mo ago

Yes, that is very true. Unfortunately, without a true non-Apple or non-Google OS, the ATT toggle is likely about as good as you can get. And it does stop the apps themselves getting raw access to your data, which is not something to sniff at.

fsflover 6mo ago
A true non-Apple and non-Google OS already exists. Sent from my Librem 5 running GNU/Linux.
- inventor7777 6mo ago
  Wow, that is neat! I had never heard of that before. However, they still have a long way to go to even equal the capabilities of normal phones made by huge companies for a typical consumer. Whether that is normal app support or even just simple stuff like camera quality. Although...that was likely never the main goal for that phone anyway.

frumplestlatz 6mo ago

The article you cite refutes your claim, explicitly bringing up the lack of access to user data. I frankly don’t care if the App Store has advertisements. I would care if my data is (1) available to Apple to read by virtue of not being e2e encrypted, and (2) used to train models and target those advertisements.

fsflover 6mo ago
> I would care if my data is (1) available to Apple to read by virtue of not being e2e encrypted, and (2) used to train models and target those advertisements. Here we go: Apple fined $8.5M for illegally collecting iPhone owners' data for ads (gizmodo.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34299433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34299433 Keeping your data from Apple is harder than expected (aalto.fi) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927657 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39927657 Apple silently uploads your passwords and keeps them (lapcatsoftware.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42014588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42014588 Watchdog ponders why Apple doesn't apply its strict app tracking rules to itself (theregister.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43047952 Apple memory holed its broken promise for an OCSP opt-out (lapcatsoftware.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41184153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41184153 Google collects 20 times more telemetry from Android devices than Apple from iOS (therecord.media) [but Apple still collects a lot!] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26639261
alt227 6mo ago
I dont mean to be rude but you obviously dont do much research about companies you seem to care a lot about. Apple have been caught time and time again undermining their users security and privacy, including syphoning off user data to government agencies etc. The sibling post cites enough reading to be getting on with, but heres a few more of my favourites for good measure: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/12/apple-getting-sued-over-app-store-user-data-collection https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/11/12/apple-getting-sue... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-contractors-regularly-hear-confidential-details-on-siri-recordings https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jul/26/apple-con... https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments...