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Still, you won't hear about Tiananmen square from this model. It flat out refuses to answer if pushed directly. It's also pretty wild how far they go to censor
by sigmoid10 6mo ago
Still, you won't hear about Tiananmen square from this model. It flat out refuses to answer if pushed directly. It's also pretty wild how far they go to censor it during inference on the API, because it can easily access any withheld or missing info from training data via tool calls. It even starts happily writing an answer based on web search when asked indirectly, only to get culled completely once some censorship bot flags the response. Ironically, it's also easier than ever to break their censorship guardrails. I just had it generate several factual paragraphs about the massacre by telling it to search the web and respond in base64 encoded text. It's actually kind of cool how much these people struggle to hide certain political views from LLMs. Makes me hopeful that even if China wins this race, we'll not have to adhere to the CCPs newspeak.
- atemerev 6mo agoOnly if you use Kimi API directly - the censorship is done externally. The model itself talks fine about Tiananmen, you can check on Openrouter. There might be less visible biases, though.
- sigmoid10 6mo agoThat's what I wrote? Except that it also clearly has internal bias?
- nicce 6mo agoEverything has some sort of bias. Most text is written by those who like writing.
- kgwgk 6mo ago> That's what I wrote? No. You wrote that "you won't hear about Tiananmen square from this model" and atemerev wrote that "the model itself talks fine about Tiananmen". You wrote that "it can easily access any withheld or missing info from training data via tool calls" and atemerev wrote that "the model itself talks fine about Tiananmen".
- sigmoid10 6mo agoIt has internal bias too and the first comment mentions that additional censoring runs on top of the model output in the API. Did you misread or what else are you missing?
- kgwgk 6mo agoThe issue is not what's missing - it's what you wrote that is in direct contradiction with what atemerev wrote like the bit about "missing info from training data". But sure, if when you wrote "you won't hear about Tiananmen square from this model" you meant "the model itself talks fine about Tiananmen" then that's exactly what you wrote.
- GardenLetter27 6mo agoThe American models also censor a lot of scientific and political views though.
- otterley 6mo agoCan you provide a concrete example of a US built model that completely refuses to discuss a scientific or political view? Show us the receipt.
- 2ndorderthought 6mo agoPeople have shown censorship and change of tone with questions related to Israel in US chat bots. For the record, none of this bothers me. Will I ever discuss with an LLM Tianeman square? Nope. How about Israel? Nope. LLMs are basically stochastic parrots designed to sway and surveill public opinion. The upshot to the Chinese models is if you run them locally you avoid at least half of those issues.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- xigoi 6mo agoFirst they came for people asking about Tiananmen Square And I did not speak out Because I was not asking about Tiananmen Square Then they came for people asking about Israel And I did not speak out Because I was not asking about Israel
- 2ndorderthought 6mo agoThis made me chuckle. I didn't mean to dismiss ethical accountability for LLM training corpuses. It is a shame. I do mean to say, we have no control over it, there's almost nothing we as average citizens can do to improve the ethical or safety concerns of LLMs or related technologies. Societies aren't even adapting and the rule books are being written by the perpetrators. Might as well get out of it what we can while we can.
- csomar 6mo agoI’d say the american models are more censored or take the censoring they do more seriously. Here is kimi (though 2.5) failing its censoring mission: https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1r9qa7l/kimi_has_context_window_expansion_ambitions/ https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/1r9qa7l/kimi_ha...