3 ms·

Because the word "data" doesn't have magical properties? And the fact that you have some "data" that seems to contradict both the personal experience of many ot

Because the word "data" doesn't have magical properties? And the fact that you have some "data" that seems to contradict both the personal experience of many other people and data points is actually curious? Like this: https://www.euroncap.com/assessments/tesla/model%2B3/1110/ https://www.euroncap.com/assessments/tesla/model%2B3/1110/ Something has to be flawed or there has to be some bias.

dangus 6mo ago
Why does something have to be flawed? Because we have to find some way to exonerate Tesla by default? Synthetic controlled environment crash tests can’t test for a lot of fatal and documented problems with Teslas like electric door latches trapping occupants, distracted drivers due to most vehicle functions being screen-based, owners who think the vehicles are more autonomous than they really are due to misleading marketing, and other issues that crash tests just don’t catch. I.e., They might do well once they’re in a crash but they might get in more crashes per mile leading to more fatalities per mile and a crash test can’t show that. I can even accept that they get into more crashes per mile because they aren’t road tripped as frequently as gasoline cars and are used in more high fatality settings (e.g., stroads have worse fatalities than highways). Obviously that in particular wouldn’t be Tesla’s fault.
- ymolodtsov 6mo ago
  Their electric latches are stupid and should be illegal. Screens don't add distractions, certainly not more than any Uber driver juggling two phones has. People really overestimate that imaginary issue, especially when every car on the road has a screen with a CarPlay now. Care-free drivers could be the result of their marketing for sure but ultimately it's on them and this is precisely the bias I'm talking about. Look, I do drive a Model 3. I like some parts and hate the others. Calling this "Autopilot" should have been illegal. But it does sound quite weird to me to insinuate they aren't safe as cars when European agencies found no safety issues with them.
  - dangus 6mo ago
    > Screens don't add distractions lol. Those same European agencies you claim find the Tesla to be super safe are the ones mandating physical controls in future vehicles. https://www.autoblog.com/news/europe-and-china-now-require-physical-buttons-in-cars-will-the-us-follow https://www.autoblog.com/news/europe-and-china-now-require-p... Study on the distracting touch screens: https://www.washington.edu/news/2025/12/16/video-drivers-struggle-to-multitask-when-using-dashboard-touch-screens-study-finds/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2025/12/16/video-drivers-str... Eyes off road during level 2 autonomous driving: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457524004330 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... Teslas can do well in synthetic crash tests and still get into more fatal accidents per mile for other reasons. The two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. I’d be fine with admitting that it’s because EV owners put fewer highways miles on them. But Tesla’s dismissive and combative reputation on safety along with removing simple controls like turn signal stalks isn’t doing them any favors. I own a Mazda from their physical controls era (sadly somewhat coming to a close with the 2027 CX-5). The idea that the median driver is an uber driver juggling two phones is not realistic. My Mazda does not allow me to operate CarPlay with the touch screen while I’m driving. This alone stops me from messing with it. I can operate common functions by feel with physical buttons in the vehicle without looking at the screen. I can operate the climate controls, mirror adjustments, turn signals, gear shifter, windshield wipers, air vents, drive modes, basically everything without looking completely by touch and muscle memory. As a model 3 owner you have to admit your Tesla is basically an impossible rental car for the average person who has never driven one. They’ll have to take a tutorial on how to shift with a touch screen, how to adjust mirrors, where are the turn signals, how to turn on the windshield wipers, etc. Now imagine if every car brand was Tesla and they all had completely different touch screen software designs and everything was on the screen. I think Avis and Hertz might go out of business or have to start their own car company to compensate.

dangus 6mo ago

Why does something have to be flawed? Because we have to find some way to exonerate Tesla by default? Synthetic controlled environment crash tests can’t test for a lot of fatal and documented problems with Teslas like electric door latches trapping occupants, distracted drivers due to most vehicle functions being screen-based, owners who think the vehicles are more autonomous than they really are due to misleading marketing, and other issues that crash tests just don’t catch. I.e., They might do well once they’re in a crash but they might get in more crashes per mile leading to more fatalities per mile and a crash test can’t show that. I can even accept that they get into more crashes per mile because they aren’t road tripped as frequently as gasoline cars and are used in more high fatality settings (e.g., stroads have worse fatalities than highways). Obviously that in particular wouldn’t be Tesla’s fault.

ymolodtsov 6mo ago
Their electric latches are stupid and should be illegal. Screens don't add distractions, certainly not more than any Uber driver juggling two phones has. People really overestimate that imaginary issue, especially when every car on the road has a screen with a CarPlay now. Care-free drivers could be the result of their marketing for sure but ultimately it's on them and this is precisely the bias I'm talking about. Look, I do drive a Model 3. I like some parts and hate the others. Calling this "Autopilot" should have been illegal. But it does sound quite weird to me to insinuate they aren't safe as cars when European agencies found no safety issues with them.
- dangus 6mo ago
  > Screens don't add distractions lol. Those same European agencies you claim find the Tesla to be super safe are the ones mandating physical controls in future vehicles. https://www.autoblog.com/news/europe-and-china-now-require-physical-buttons-in-cars-will-the-us-follow https://www.autoblog.com/news/europe-and-china-now-require-p... Study on the distracting touch screens: https://www.washington.edu/news/2025/12/16/video-drivers-struggle-to-multitask-when-using-dashboard-touch-screens-study-finds/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2025/12/16/video-drivers-str... Eyes off road during level 2 autonomous driving: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457524004330 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... Teslas can do well in synthetic crash tests and still get into more fatal accidents per mile for other reasons. The two concepts aren’t mutually exclusive. I’d be fine with admitting that it’s because EV owners put fewer highways miles on them. But Tesla’s dismissive and combative reputation on safety along with removing simple controls like turn signal stalks isn’t doing them any favors. I own a Mazda from their physical controls era (sadly somewhat coming to a close with the 2027 CX-5). The idea that the median driver is an uber driver juggling two phones is not realistic. My Mazda does not allow me to operate CarPlay with the touch screen while I’m driving. This alone stops me from messing with it. I can operate common functions by feel with physical buttons in the vehicle without looking at the screen. I can operate the climate controls, mirror adjustments, turn signals, gear shifter, windshield wipers, air vents, drive modes, basically everything without looking completely by touch and muscle memory. As a model 3 owner you have to admit your Tesla is basically an impossible rental car for the average person who has never driven one. They’ll have to take a tutorial on how to shift with a touch screen, how to adjust mirrors, where are the turn signals, how to turn on the windshield wipers, etc. Now imagine if every car brand was Tesla and they all had completely different touch screen software designs and everything was on the screen. I think Avis and Hertz might go out of business or have to start their own car company to compensate.