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Apple has no chance to claim their batteries can have 80% capacity after 1000 cycles seeing how they never achieved this so far. Lying about it puts them in a w

by close04 6mo ago

Apple has no chance to claim their batteries can have 80% capacity after 1000 cycles seeing how they never achieved this so far. Lying about it puts them in a world of mass recalls and fraud investigations.

less_less 6mo ago
I'm pretty the spec sheet claimed 1000 cycles when I bought my iPhone 17. They do claim it at least for iPhone 15 "under ideal conditions": https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575 https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575
- close04 6mo ago
  VW engine specs said some things about emissions. It’s fine to have unrealistic specs if there are no consequences. The f there’s a law about it they’re far more exposed to people catching a lie or at least an unrealistic estimate.
bombcar 6mo ago
Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. As a datapoint my iPhone reports 522 cycles and 89% max - from march 2024. I do use the "limit charging to 80%" feature which I suspect may become mandatory before 2027 ...
- john_strinlai 6mo ago
  >Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. the definition of a battery cycle is very well established. there isnt really any room to finagle it.
- close04 6mo ago
  I don’t think “a cycle” is up for redefining. I hope these terms are defined in the law. But that supports my assumption that realistically the batteries don’t last 1000 cycles even when charged conservatively. The last 9% will go faster than the first 11%, the battery already has lower capacity and needs to be charged even more often. On the other hand if I only get to 1000 cycles by charging up to 80% then I’m not getting 100% of the battery, am I? Dieselgate was caught by some dudes with an emissions measuring device. It’s not that extreme to get a number of iPhone batteries, test them to 1000 cycles and see if statistically they still retain 80% capacity. If they don’t Apple could be looking at replacing everyone’s batteries.
  - bombcar 6mo ago
    The obvious solution is underrating - just like a 1 TB SSD actually has more than 1TB of "raw storage" available internally. What is a 100% battery today will be sold as an 80% capacity tomorrow, with 20% "overage" available for wear.
    - close04 6mo ago
      That’s fine as long as the battery ends up having 80% real capacity after 1000 cycles and maybe Apple is also transparent about how. A bigger issue which I don’t know if the law covers is with the other battery specs. An 80% battery that can’t handle any spikes (low power mode) is useless.
      - bombcar 6mo ago
        The easiest is to just require it be replaced under warranty - if the battery has to be usable to 1000 cycles, and it is at 80% and 999 cycles but doesn't "work" it's a warranty replacement. But that then brings in a "how many years" question.
      - ApolloFortyNine 6mo ago
        Isn't the most obvious end game just (if using the same packaging) some note on a spec sheet of "12 hours screen on time (10 hours in the EU)"? If it's not configurable people will likely complain battery life is higher on the US's software version, they won't care about the reason.
      - gf000 6mo ago
        Well, Apple was already fined for decreasing the CPU frequency (to avoid spikes on aged batteries), so that's not really an option. (Even though at the time they wasn't doing it out of malice at all, they actually tried to keep old phones usable - their marketing team messed up there big time)
- PunchyHamster 6mo ago
  Charging to 80% significantly decreases the wear. Your battery would be way lower if you charged to 100%
- latexr 6mo ago
  > Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. The definition is pretty well established, and Apple themselves have for years used it consistently. https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ > You complete one charge cycle when you’ve used (discharged) an amount that represents 100% of your battery’s capacity* — but not necessarily all from one charge. For instance, you might use 75% of your battery’s capacity one day, then recharge it fully overnight. If you use 25% the next day, you will have discharged a total of 100%, and the two days will add up to one charge cycle. It could take several days to complete a cycle.
vaginaphobic 6mo ago
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by close04 6mo ago

less_less 6mo ago

I'm pretty the spec sheet claimed 1000 cycles when I bought my iPhone 17. They do claim it at least for iPhone 15 "under ideal conditions": https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575 https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575

close04 6mo ago
VW engine specs said some things about emissions. It’s fine to have unrealistic specs if there are no consequences. The f there’s a law about it they’re far more exposed to people catching a lie or at least an unrealistic estimate.

bombcar 6mo ago

Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. As a datapoint my iPhone reports 522 cycles and 89% max - from march 2024. I do use the "limit charging to 80%" feature which I suspect may become mandatory before 2027 ...

john_strinlai 6mo ago
>Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. the definition of a battery cycle is very well established. there isnt really any room to finagle it.
close04 6mo ago
I don’t think “a cycle” is up for redefining. I hope these terms are defined in the law. But that supports my assumption that realistically the batteries don’t last 1000 cycles even when charged conservatively. The last 9% will go faster than the first 11%, the battery already has lower capacity and needs to be charged even more often. On the other hand if I only get to 1000 cycles by charging up to 80% then I’m not getting 100% of the battery, am I? Dieselgate was caught by some dudes with an emissions measuring device. It’s not that extreme to get a number of iPhone batteries, test them to 1000 cycles and see if statistically they still retain 80% capacity. If they don’t Apple could be looking at replacing everyone’s batteries.
- bombcar 6mo ago
  The obvious solution is underrating - just like a 1 TB SSD actually has more than 1TB of "raw storage" available internally. What is a 100% battery today will be sold as an 80% capacity tomorrow, with 20% "overage" available for wear.
  - close04 6mo ago
    That’s fine as long as the battery ends up having 80% real capacity after 1000 cycles and maybe Apple is also transparent about how. A bigger issue which I don’t know if the law covers is with the other battery specs. An 80% battery that can’t handle any spikes (low power mode) is useless.
    - bombcar 6mo ago
      The easiest is to just require it be replaced under warranty - if the battery has to be usable to 1000 cycles, and it is at 80% and 999 cycles but doesn't "work" it's a warranty replacement. But that then brings in a "how many years" question.
    - ApolloFortyNine 6mo ago
      Isn't the most obvious end game just (if using the same packaging) some note on a spec sheet of "12 hours screen on time (10 hours in the EU)"? If it's not configurable people will likely complain battery life is higher on the US's software version, they won't care about the reason.
    - gf000 6mo ago
      Well, Apple was already fined for decreasing the CPU frequency (to avoid spikes on aged batteries), so that's not really an option. (Even though at the time they wasn't doing it out of malice at all, they actually tried to keep old phones usable - their marketing team messed up there big time)
PunchyHamster 6mo ago
Charging to 80% significantly decreases the wear. Your battery would be way lower if you charged to 100%
latexr 6mo ago
> Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. The definition is pretty well established, and Apple themselves have for years used it consistently. https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ https://www.apple.com/batteries/why-lithium-ion/ > You complete one charge cycle when you’ve used (discharged) an amount that represents 100% of your battery’s capacity* — but not necessarily all from one charge. For instance, you might use 75% of your battery’s capacity one day, then recharge it fully overnight. If you use 25% the next day, you will have discharged a total of 100%, and the two days will add up to one charge cycle. It could take several days to complete a cycle.

vaginaphobic 6mo ago

[dead]