3 ms·

No shot at all apple batteries can last 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity. Probably can’t even do 300 in my experience. Sounds like an easy lawsuit.

zitterbewegung 6mo ago
A battery that can support 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity would be a literal brick. For an example the Vision Pro's battery has extreme over-provisioning and limit how long it would last. (note I know it is removable but that isn't the point).
- gf000 6mo ago
  Well, this just incentivized a new battery tech then, what's the problem?
lsxr 6mo ago
No doubt they will redefine maximum battery capacity to a figure that does achieve 80% over 1000 cycles. If you under-declare maximum capacity then there is a lot of headroom for actual degradation before you start to show degradation to the user.
- cptskippy 6mo ago
  This is what they should have been doing all along. My Pixel tells me that charging above 80% is bad for battery longevity and I should set a charge limit. Well then maybe 80% should be the new 100% and the advertised capacity should be the 80%.
  - Aachen 6mo ago
    This balancing act is already happening. If you modify the battery controller, you can totally continue charging beyond the voltage that the phone considers to be 100%. It also increases the risk of damaging the battery (https://www.acebattery.com/blogs/what-will-happen-when-a-lithium-battery-is-overcharged https://www.acebattery.com/blogs/what-will-happen-when-a-lit...). What they define as 100% is already some point on a damage probability curve, and charging to anything below that point will further decrease the amount of battery stress (for li-ion batteries and similar technologies) Fwiw, based on tests I've seen recently such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4LMlGr4og https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4LMlGr4og, I think limiting to 80% is overblown, but somewhere in the 90%s could be a sweet spot that gives you several hours' longer battery life than with 80% but still has a much reduced chance of significant degradation. I don't understand why they didn't make this configurable
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- floatrock 6mo ago
  iPhone 17 Pro launch specs: > Video Playback: Up to 27* hours > *: 25 hours in the EU
nslsm 6mo ago
In the meantime, my daily driver here in reality land: https://i.imgur.com/8yEEJVb.png https://i.imgur.com/8yEEJVb.png
- protimewaster 6mo ago
  That has not been my experience, at least with Apple laptops. Even when rated for 1000 cycles, I'll get the warning that service is needed (AFAIK that means 80% capacity or lower) well before then. I've seen this on several, but the one I just checked is at just under 670 cycles and has had that warning up for some months already. Maybe iPhones are better about this, though, I don't know. But I definitely don't have a lot of faith in the laptops maintaining 80% for 1000 cycles.
  - kalleboo 6mo ago
    AppleCare covers the 80% capacity/1000 cycles rating, so I always keep an eye on my battery around 1000 cycles praying it will drop under 80% so I can get a new battery for free under AppleCare, and have yet to manage it
- fainpul 6mo ago
  212 cycles, still 100% capacity (maybe 99.5 rounded up) "relative to when it was new". Doesn't that seem a bit dodgy to you?
chasil 6mo ago
I would wager that batteries that powered down at 20% and that halt charging at 80% would be significantly prolonged. If Apple resorts to those tactics, then there is no limit in moving the goalposts.

zitterbewegung 6mo ago

A battery that can support 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity would be a literal brick. For an example the Vision Pro's battery has extreme over-provisioning and limit how long it would last. (note I know it is removable but that isn't the point).

gf000 6mo ago
Well, this just incentivized a new battery tech then, what's the problem?

lsxr 6mo ago

No doubt they will redefine maximum battery capacity to a figure that does achieve 80% over 1000 cycles. If you under-declare maximum capacity then there is a lot of headroom for actual degradation before you start to show degradation to the user.

cptskippy 6mo ago
This is what they should have been doing all along. My Pixel tells me that charging above 80% is bad for battery longevity and I should set a charge limit. Well then maybe 80% should be the new 100% and the advertised capacity should be the 80%.
- Aachen 6mo ago
  This balancing act is already happening. If you modify the battery controller, you can totally continue charging beyond the voltage that the phone considers to be 100%. It also increases the risk of damaging the battery (https://www.acebattery.com/blogs/what-will-happen-when-a-lithium-battery-is-overcharged https://www.acebattery.com/blogs/what-will-happen-when-a-lit...). What they define as 100% is already some point on a damage probability curve, and charging to anything below that point will further decrease the amount of battery stress (for li-ion batteries and similar technologies) Fwiw, based on tests I've seen recently such as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4LMlGr4og https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4LMlGr4og, I think limiting to 80% is overblown, but somewhere in the 90%s could be a sweet spot that gives you several hours' longer battery life than with 80% but still has a much reduced chance of significant degradation. I don't understand why they didn't make this configurable
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
floatrock 6mo ago
iPhone 17 Pro launch specs: > Video Playback: Up to 27* hours > *: 25 hours in the EU

nslsm 6mo ago

In the meantime, my daily driver here in reality land: https://i.imgur.com/8yEEJVb.png https://i.imgur.com/8yEEJVb.png

protimewaster 6mo ago
That has not been my experience, at least with Apple laptops. Even when rated for 1000 cycles, I'll get the warning that service is needed (AFAIK that means 80% capacity or lower) well before then. I've seen this on several, but the one I just checked is at just under 670 cycles and has had that warning up for some months already. Maybe iPhones are better about this, though, I don't know. But I definitely don't have a lot of faith in the laptops maintaining 80% for 1000 cycles.
- kalleboo 6mo ago
  AppleCare covers the 80% capacity/1000 cycles rating, so I always keep an eye on my battery around 1000 cycles praying it will drop under 80% so I can get a new battery for free under AppleCare, and have yet to manage it
fainpul 6mo ago
212 cycles, still 100% capacity (maybe 99.5 rounded up) "relative to when it was new". Doesn't that seem a bit dodgy to you?

chasil 6mo ago

I would wager that batteries that powered down at 20% and that halt charging at 80% would be significantly prolonged. If Apple resorts to those tactics, then there is no limit in moving the goalposts.