4 ms·

Yes, this is the most non-story I have ever seen on this topic. I do not know of any manufacturer who does not claim this, verifiable or otherwise; and even if

Yes, this is the most non-story I have ever seen on this topic. I do not know of any manufacturer who does not claim this, verifiable or otherwise; and even if they can't claim it, all they have to do is one minor purely-software capacity adjustment, which they will gladly do before they will even consider offering removable batteries. What a disappointment.

close04 6mo ago
Apple has no chance to claim their batteries can have 80% capacity after 1000 cycles seeing how they never achieved this so far. Lying about it puts them in a world of mass recalls and fraud investigations.
- less_less 6mo ago
  I'm pretty the spec sheet claimed 1000 cycles when I bought my iPhone 17. They do claim it at least for iPhone 15 "under ideal conditions": https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575 https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575
  - close04 6mo ago
    VW engine specs said some things about emissions. It’s fine to have unrealistic specs if there are no consequences. The f there’s a law about it they’re far more exposed to people catching a lie or at least an unrealistic estimate.
- bombcar 6mo ago
  Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. As a datapoint my iPhone reports 522 cycles and 89% max - from march 2024. I do use the "limit charging to 80%" feature which I suspect may become mandatory before 2027 ...
  - john_strinlai 6mo ago
    >Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. the definition of a battery cycle is very well established. there isnt really any room to finagle it.
  - close04 6mo ago
    I don’t think “a cycle” is up for redefining. I hope these terms are defined in the law. But that supports my assumption that realistically the batteries don’t last 1000 cycles even when charged conservatively. The last 9% will go faster than the first 11%, the battery already has lower capacity and needs to be charged even more often. On the other hand if I only get to 1000 cycles by charging up to 80% then I’m not getting 100% of the battery, am I? Dieselgate was caught by some dudes with an emissions measuring device. It’s not that extreme to get a number of iPhone batteries, test them to 1000 cycles and see if statistically they still retain 80% capacity. If they don’t Apple could be looking at replacing everyone’s batteries.
    - bombcar 6mo ago
      The obvious solution is underrating - just like a 1 TB SSD actually has more than 1TB of "raw storage" available internally. What is a 100% battery today will be sold as an 80% capacity tomorrow, with 20% "overage" available for wear.
      - close04 6mo ago
        That’s fine as long as the battery ends up having 80% real capacity after 1000 cycles and maybe Apple is also transparent about how. A bigger issue which I don’t know if the law covers is with the other battery specs. An 80% battery that can’t handle any spikes (low power mode) is useless.
        bombcar 6mo ago
        The easiest is to just require it be replaced under warranty - if the battery has to be usable to 1000 cycles, and it is at 80% and 999 cycles but doesn't "work" it's a warranty replacement. But that then brings in a "how many years" question.
- vaginaphobic 6mo ago
  [dead]

close04 6mo ago

Apple has no chance to claim their batteries can have 80% capacity after 1000 cycles seeing how they never achieved this so far. Lying about it puts them in a world of mass recalls and fraud investigations.

less_less 6mo ago
I'm pretty the spec sheet claimed 1000 cycles when I bought my iPhone 17. They do claim it at least for iPhone 15 "under ideal conditions": https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575 https://support.apple.com/en-us/101575
- close04 6mo ago
  VW engine specs said some things about emissions. It’s fine to have unrealistic specs if there are no consequences. The f there’s a law about it they’re far more exposed to people catching a lie or at least an unrealistic estimate.
bombcar 6mo ago
Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. As a datapoint my iPhone reports 522 cycles and 89% max - from march 2024. I do use the "limit charging to 80%" feature which I suspect may become mandatory before 2027 ...
- john_strinlai 6mo ago
  >Depends on how "cycle" is defined - I'm sure they can finagle it so "any charge added to the battery" counts as a cycle. the definition of a battery cycle is very well established. there isnt really any room to finagle it.
- close04 6mo ago
  I don’t think “a cycle” is up for redefining. I hope these terms are defined in the law. But that supports my assumption that realistically the batteries don’t last 1000 cycles even when charged conservatively. The last 9% will go faster than the first 11%, the battery already has lower capacity and needs to be charged even more often. On the other hand if I only get to 1000 cycles by charging up to 80% then I’m not getting 100% of the battery, am I? Dieselgate was caught by some dudes with an emissions measuring device. It’s not that extreme to get a number of iPhone batteries, test them to 1000 cycles and see if statistically they still retain 80% capacity. If they don’t Apple could be looking at replacing everyone’s batteries.
  - bombcar 6mo ago
    The obvious solution is underrating - just like a 1 TB SSD actually has more than 1TB of "raw storage" available internally. What is a 100% battery today will be sold as an 80% capacity tomorrow, with 20% "overage" available for wear.
    - close04 6mo ago
      That’s fine as long as the battery ends up having 80% real capacity after 1000 cycles and maybe Apple is also transparent about how. A bigger issue which I don’t know if the law covers is with the other battery specs. An 80% battery that can’t handle any spikes (low power mode) is useless.
      - bombcar 6mo ago
        The easiest is to just require it be replaced under warranty - if the battery has to be usable to 1000 cycles, and it is at 80% and 999 cycles but doesn't "work" it's a warranty replacement. But that then brings in a "how many years" question.
vaginaphobic 6mo ago
[dead]