3 ms·

Should it be ‘solar leading energy subsidy growth’.

deaux 6mo ago
No chance, fossil fuels are subsidized more. A large share of solar growth is from countries like Pakistan who have had some subsidies but total dollar amount of them is trivial.
- dzhiurgis 6mo ago
  Got source? China only ended solar panel export subsidy this month.
  - RALaBarge 6mo ago
    [dead]
  - actionfromafar 6mo ago
    The US oil subsidy currently is projected to increase the Pentagon budget from one trillion to one and half. I bet one could build a lot of solar panels for 500 billion dollars, and you can use them more than once, too.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
  - deaux 6mo ago
    Pricing fossil fuel pollution at zero is the biggest subsidy in the world bar none. Contrast this with for example nuclear power, where potential pollution risks as well as storage of its spent resources are some of the biggest costs. If they were subsidized equally to fossil fuels, the costs of those would be very low, with the public simply paying the price for any negative health effects. Oil is directly subsidized in most oil producing countries. Go look at what fuel costs in Saudi Arabia or Nigeria, vs what they could sell it for on international markets. That's a subsidy. Jet fuel is universally exempt from tax. Try finding any other energy source that is.
    - dzhiurgis 6mo ago
      There isn't really an alternative for jet fuel, is there? Synfuel still has pollution problem and represents like 0.1% of total jet fuel used. Yes some places choose to lower fuel taxes. But that's not really a subsidy is it. (And tbf nor is my mentioned Chinese solar panel export subsidy as it was actually a GST/VAT rebate).
      - deaux 6mo ago
        > There isn't really an alternative for jet fuel, is there? Synfuel still has pollution problem and represents like 0.1% of total jet fuel used. There isn't an alternative for water, electricity and food. Easy to find places where the former two are taxed, the latter is taxed effectively everywhere.
        dzhiurgis 6mo ago
        All of these have alternative sources. Jet fuel has not.
        defrost 6mo ago
        Jet fuel has alternatives, as noted above SAF / Synfuel which is increasingly being blended into fossil fuel sourced trad "jet fuel" / kerosene (with a twist). > Synfuel still has pollution problem and represents like 0.1% of total jet fuel used. is a fairly lightweight critique of a product development path scarcely five years in: Sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) is an alternative fuel made from non-petroleum feedstocks that reduces air pollution from air transportation. SAF can be blended at different levels with limits between 10% and 50%, depending on the feedstock and how the fuel is produced. According to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), over 360,000 commercial flights have used SAF at 46 different airports largely concentrated in the United States and Europe. Worldwide, aviation accounts for 2% of all carbon dioxide (CO2) and 12% of all CO2 from transportation. ICAO's Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation (CORSIA) caps net CO2 from aviation at 2020 levels through 2035. The international aviation industry sets goals for SAF usage globally. SAF presents the best near-term opportunity to meet these goals. The Sustainable Aviation Fuel Grand Challenge, announced in 2021, brings together multiple federal agencies for the purpose of expanding domestic consumption to 3 billion gallons in 2030 and 35 billion gallons in 2050 while achieving at least a 50% reduction in lifecycle emissions. ~ https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/sustainable-aviation-fuel https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/sustainable-aviation-fuel So, have some patience and remember the goal here is to reduce the use of fossil fuel as much as possible .. if Synfuel evolves into something that reduces fossil fuel usage by 50% in the aviation sector, that's a win on the path to ideally eventual elimination altogether.
  - the_why_of_y 6mo ago
    Subsidies for fossil fuels in 2020 were $5 trillion according to IMF Working Paper: https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2021/09/23/Still-Not-Getting-Energy-Prices-Right-A-Global-and-Country-Update-of-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-466004 https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2021/09/23/Sti...
    - dzhiurgis 6mo ago
      > Just 8 percent of the 2020 subsidy reflects undercharging for supply costs (explicit subsidies) So $400b. Still a lot.
      - the_why_of_y 5mo ago
        The majority of the subsidies are implicit, in the form of negative externalities that are not priced in. But I really should locate a more recent version of this report... https://www.imf.org/en/publications/wp/issues/2025/12/20/underpriced-and-overused-fossil-fuel-subsidies-data-2025-update-572729 https://www.imf.org/en/publications/wp/issues/2025/12/20/und... In 2024 they found $725bn in explicit subsides, plus $6.7tn in implicit subsidies.
Aboutplants 6mo ago
Solar subsidies still pale in comparison to oil and gas subsidies worldwide
thelastgallon 6mo ago
Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Reached $7 Trillion in 2022, an All-Time High: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuel-subsidies-2022 https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuel-subsidies-2022 Plus, add the entire defense budget of US + western countries, which only exists to protect oil interests.
- tim333 6mo ago
  In the "unpaid cost of climate change and air pollution as a result of burning fossil fuels" etc. sense, not in a cash given to fossil fuel folk sense.
  - thelastgallon 6mo ago
    > explicit subsidies, such as price caps on fuel, accounted for 18 percent of this total.

deaux 6mo ago

No chance, fossil fuels are subsidized more. A large share of solar growth is from countries like Pakistan who have had some subsidies but total dollar amount of them is trivial.

dzhiurgis 6mo ago
Got source? China only ended solar panel export subsidy this month.
- RALaBarge 6mo ago
  [dead]
- actionfromafar 6mo ago
  The US oil subsidy currently is projected to increase the Pentagon budget from one trillion to one and half. I bet one could build a lot of solar panels for 500 billion dollars, and you can use them more than once, too.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
- deaux 6mo ago
  Pricing fossil fuel pollution at zero is the biggest subsidy in the world bar none. Contrast this with for example nuclear power, where potential pollution risks as well as storage of its spent resources are some of the biggest costs. If they were subsidized equally to fossil fuels, the costs of those would be very low, with the public simply paying the price for any negative health effects. Oil is directly subsidized in most oil producing countries. Go look at what fuel costs in Saudi Arabia or Nigeria, vs what they could sell it for on international markets. That's a subsidy. Jet fuel is universally exempt from tax. Try finding any other energy source that is.
  - dzhiurgis 6mo ago
    There isn't really an alternative for jet fuel, is there? Synfuel still has pollution problem and represents like 0.1% of total jet fuel used. Yes some places choose to lower fuel taxes. But that's not really a subsidy is it. (And tbf nor is my mentioned Chinese solar panel export subsidy as it was actually a GST/VAT rebate).
    - deaux 6mo ago
      > There isn't really an alternative for jet fuel, is there? Synfuel still has pollution problem and represents like 0.1% of total jet fuel used. There isn't an alternative for water, electricity and food. Easy to find places where the former two are taxed, the latter is taxed effectively everywhere.
      - dzhiurgis 6mo ago
        All of these have alternative sources. Jet fuel has not.
        defrost 6mo ago
        Jet fuel has alternatives, as noted above SAF / Synfuel which is increasingly being blended into fossil fuel sourced trad "jet fuel" / kerosene (with a twist). > Synfuel still has pollution problem and represents like 0.1% of total jet fuel used. is a fairly lightweight critique of a product development path scarcely five years in: Sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) is an alternative fuel made from non-petroleum feedstocks that reduces air pollution from air transportation. SAF can be blended at different levels with limits between 10% and 50%, depending on the feedstock and how the fuel is produced. According to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), over 360,000 commercial flights have used SAF at 46 different airports largely concentrated in the United States and Europe. Worldwide, aviation accounts for 2% of all carbon dioxide (CO2) and 12% of all CO2 from transportation. ICAO's Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation (CORSIA) caps net CO2 from aviation at 2020 levels through 2035. The international aviation industry sets goals for SAF usage globally. SAF presents the best near-term opportunity to meet these goals. The Sustainable Aviation Fuel Grand Challenge, announced in 2021, brings together multiple federal agencies for the purpose of expanding domestic consumption to 3 billion gallons in 2030 and 35 billion gallons in 2050 while achieving at least a 50% reduction in lifecycle emissions. ~ https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/sustainable-aviation-fuel https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/sustainable-aviation-fuel So, have some patience and remember the goal here is to reduce the use of fossil fuel as much as possible .. if Synfuel evolves into something that reduces fossil fuel usage by 50% in the aviation sector, that's a win on the path to ideally eventual elimination altogether.
- the_why_of_y 6mo ago
  Subsidies for fossil fuels in 2020 were $5 trillion according to IMF Working Paper: https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2021/09/23/Still-Not-Getting-Energy-Prices-Right-A-Global-and-Country-Update-of-Fossil-Fuel-Subsidies-466004 https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2021/09/23/Sti...
  - dzhiurgis 6mo ago
    > Just 8 percent of the 2020 subsidy reflects undercharging for supply costs (explicit subsidies) So $400b. Still a lot.
    - the_why_of_y 5mo ago
      The majority of the subsidies are implicit, in the form of negative externalities that are not priced in. But I really should locate a more recent version of this report... https://www.imf.org/en/publications/wp/issues/2025/12/20/underpriced-and-overused-fossil-fuel-subsidies-data-2025-update-572729 https://www.imf.org/en/publications/wp/issues/2025/12/20/und... In 2024 they found $725bn in explicit subsides, plus $6.7tn in implicit subsidies.

Aboutplants 6mo ago

Solar subsidies still pale in comparison to oil and gas subsidies worldwide

thelastgallon 6mo ago

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Reached $7 Trillion in 2022, an All-Time High: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuel-subsidies-2022 https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuel-subsidies-2022 Plus, add the entire defense budget of US + western countries, which only exists to protect oil interests.

tim333 6mo ago
In the "unpaid cost of climate change and air pollution as a result of burning fossil fuels" etc. sense, not in a cash given to fossil fuel folk sense.
- thelastgallon 6mo ago
  > explicit subsidies, such as price caps on fuel, accounted for 18 percent of this total.