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Whats the diff between today giving you phone to your 8-year and making sure /having trust that they do not use it to e.g. order a new toy from Amazon and tomor

by Sweepi 6mo ago

Whats the diff between today giving you phone to your 8-year and making sure /having trust that they do not use it to e.g. order a new toy from Amazon and tomorrow that he is not using to verify they are an adult? I mean, most things today (like accessing porn, buying alcohol) do not require any extra age verification. They can just do it using your phone/accounts.

kdheiwns 6mo ago
Not everyone views their child as an enemy that just happens to be in close quarters with them. Most people trust their kids to generally not do bad things. People keep knives in their kitchen and kids, explain the danger, and kids are generally responsible enough to not play with them. If this is a concept that you can't grasp, then words will never convey it. It's simply a detachment from reality to think people are viewing their phones as a loaded gun and their child as someone hellbent on betraying them and causing massive societal damage. The phone is the YouTube device. If they get a notification that their kid ordered from Amazon, they'll cancel the order and tell their kid not to do it again. It's seriously that simple. Just go and talk to a parent. They'll think viewing their phones as a WMD is insane.
- JimDabell 6mo ago
  > Most people trust their kids to generally not do bad things. Okay, so trust them not to access age-gated sites using your credentials then.
  - kdheiwns 6mo ago
    Then just get rid of the age gating and verification entirely because it's useless.
    - JimDabell 6mo ago
      Other parents have different opinions to you about the value of this.
      - JoshTriplett 6mo ago
        The problem comes in when they feel their opinions should carry weight about other people's kids. There are very limited ways in which we should allow that, and to an oversimplified approximation, they boil down to "don't do kids harm that prevents them from becoming an intact person society treats as a human allowed to make their own decisions". And then the problem is that some people think some websites do such damage, and other people think some websites provide help to survive such damage.
      - saghm 6mo ago
        Okay, so those parents can just not give their kids their phones, and everyone else can continue living life as usual without needing a fancy new way of telling websites how old they are
        philipallstar 6mo ago
        Giving your kid a gateway to every bad thing on the internet is not life as usual. It's incredibly recent, and I don't have shares in SSRI manufacturers, so I don't like it.
        saghm 6mo ago
        Having a smartphone at all also is incredibly recent, so by that logic we shouldn't let anyone have them. Alternately, maybe we can recognize that they haven't been long enough for any specific way of using them to be the long-term universal standard. In the meantime, I still don't understand why someone with no kids should have their access gated based on what opinions other people have on parenting. I literally don't have any stake in whether you give your kids access to your phone or not, and I don't make any claims that I would have any clue what the correct way to raise a kid is. That doesn't make it reasonable to have a policy that requires literally the exact people who aren't the ones that are ostensibly supposed to be protected by the system tracked by it.
        philipallstar 6mo ago

by Sweepi 6mo ago

kdheiwns 6mo ago

Not everyone views their child as an enemy that just happens to be in close quarters with them. Most people trust their kids to generally not do bad things. People keep knives in their kitchen and kids, explain the danger, and kids are generally responsible enough to not play with them. If this is a concept that you can't grasp, then words will never convey it. It's simply a detachment from reality to think people are viewing their phones as a loaded gun and their child as someone hellbent on betraying them and causing massive societal damage. The phone is the YouTube device. If they get a notification that their kid ordered from Amazon, they'll cancel the order and tell their kid not to do it again. It's seriously that simple. Just go and talk to a parent. They'll think viewing their phones as a WMD is insane.

JimDabell 6mo ago
> Most people trust their kids to generally not do bad things. Okay, so trust them not to access age-gated sites using your credentials then.
- kdheiwns 6mo ago
  Then just get rid of the age gating and verification entirely because it's useless.
  - JimDabell 6mo ago
    Other parents have different opinions to you about the value of this.
    - JoshTriplett 6mo ago
      The problem comes in when they feel their opinions should carry weight about other people's kids. There are very limited ways in which we should allow that, and to an oversimplified approximation, they boil down to "don't do kids harm that prevents them from becoming an intact person society treats as a human allowed to make their own decisions". And then the problem is that some people think some websites do such damage, and other people think some websites provide help to survive such damage.
    - saghm 6mo ago
      Okay, so those parents can just not give their kids their phones, and everyone else can continue living life as usual without needing a fancy new way of telling websites how old they are
      - philipallstar 6mo ago
        Giving your kid a gateway to every bad thing on the internet is not life as usual. It's incredibly recent, and I don't have shares in SSRI manufacturers, so I don't like it.
        saghm 6mo ago
        Having a smartphone at all also is incredibly recent, so by that logic we shouldn't let anyone have them. Alternately, maybe we can recognize that they haven't been long enough for any specific way of using them to be the long-term universal standard. In the meantime, I still don't understand why someone with no kids should have their access gated based on what opinions other people have on parenting. I literally don't have any stake in whether you give your kids access to your phone or not, and I don't make any claims that I would have any clue what the correct way to raise a kid is. That doesn't make it reasonable to have a policy that requires literally the exact people who aren't the ones that are ostensibly supposed to be protected by the system tracked by it.
        philipallstar 6mo ago