4 ms·

High-level, I would agree with you. One thing that blows me away: I think I read that Northern Virginia, USA has the highest data center density in the world.

by throwaway2037 6mo ago

High-level, I would agree with you. One thing that blows me away: I think I read that Northern Virginia, USA has the highest data center density in the world. Mostly it is due to demand from US gov't, military, and spy agencies (like NSA). How did they do it? In mainstream media, I don't see any news about a stressed power grid in this area. I guess the US gov't carefully coordinated with local power providers to continuously upgrade their power grid? This is a real question. It makes no sense to me. No shilling/trolling here.

AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
> I think I read that Northern Virginia, USA has the highest data center density in the world. Mostly it is due to demand from US gov't, military, and spy agencies (like NSA). That's where AWS us-east-1 is, i.e. the oldest AWS region where they got started to begin with. Google and Microsoft also have a large presence there. It's not just the US government, it's everybody, and it's not new. > How did they do it? Here's the US nuclear plant map, guess where a bunch of them are: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65104 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65104 The area around Virginia is also a major coal producer and when this was getting started it was a source of cheap electricity, but coal is quickly being replaced with natural gas via pipelines from the Gulf coast. Their current power mix is ~30% nuclear, ~12% renewables (solar) and almost all the rest natural gas.
neutronicus 6mo ago
> I don't see any news about a stressed power grid in this area. That's because you don't live in Maryland. Our energy bills are through the roof and our transmission company is talking about rolling blackouts in 2027. https://www.thebanner.com/community/climate-environment/contested-transmission-line-NBPOSUMDNVEYTKYM2UBCZ2IWKU/ https://www.thebanner.com/community/climate-environment/cont...
- throwaway2037 6mo ago
  Well, they have done pretty well for 20 years of planning. Google tells me that AWS us-east-1 region (Northern Virginia) was started in 2006! EDIT The opening paragraph: > State regulators’ review of the controversial power line proposed to stretch across three rural Maryland counties will extend to at least February 2027, officials announced Thursday, a timeline that prevents developers from meeting the grid operator’s deadline to ensure reliable electricity. I bet this is pure NIMBYism. Just this phrase alone is a dead giveaway: "controversial power line". LOL: What is controversial about a power line? Hint: They aren't, but NIMBYism exists.
  - neutronicus 6mo ago
    Sure, just pointing to some news coverage in which grid operators allege that the grid is stressed in the DMV area.
    - AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
      The grid is constantly "stressed" everywhere, because they're designed to be. You don't build five times as much capacity as you need at huge expense for no reason, you design the thing to have only slightly more capacity than you expect to need. If demand increases you have to build more generation and power lines etc. This is not a problem but for NIMBYs, it's just the logical consequence. If the local population increases and you don't have enough grocery stores you don't say "grocery stores are stressed" and regard it as an insurmountable problem, people just open more of them.
      - throwaway2037 6mo ago
        Chef's kiss for this reply. It is perfect. I like how you reframed the argument around grocery stores. It would be ridiculous to write a newspaper article about "grocery stores are stressed" and there is a newly proposed "controversial grocery store". NIMBYists will perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend their positions.

AnthonyMouse 6mo ago

> I think I read that Northern Virginia, USA has the highest data center density in the world. Mostly it is due to demand from US gov't, military, and spy agencies (like NSA). That's where AWS us-east-1 is, i.e. the oldest AWS region where they got started to begin with. Google and Microsoft also have a large presence there. It's not just the US government, it's everybody, and it's not new. > How did they do it? Here's the US nuclear plant map, guess where a bunch of them are: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65104 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65104 The area around Virginia is also a major coal producer and when this was getting started it was a source of cheap electricity, but coal is quickly being replaced with natural gas via pipelines from the Gulf coast. Their current power mix is ~30% nuclear, ~12% renewables (solar) and almost all the rest natural gas.

neutronicus 6mo ago

> I don't see any news about a stressed power grid in this area. That's because you don't live in Maryland. Our energy bills are through the roof and our transmission company is talking about rolling blackouts in 2027. https://www.thebanner.com/community/climate-environment/contested-transmission-line-NBPOSUMDNVEYTKYM2UBCZ2IWKU/ https://www.thebanner.com/community/climate-environment/cont...

throwaway2037 6mo ago
Well, they have done pretty well for 20 years of planning. Google tells me that AWS us-east-1 region (Northern Virginia) was started in 2006! EDIT The opening paragraph: > State regulators’ review of the controversial power line proposed to stretch across three rural Maryland counties will extend to at least February 2027, officials announced Thursday, a timeline that prevents developers from meeting the grid operator’s deadline to ensure reliable electricity. I bet this is pure NIMBYism. Just this phrase alone is a dead giveaway: "controversial power line". LOL: What is controversial about a power line? Hint: They aren't, but NIMBYism exists.
- neutronicus 6mo ago
  Sure, just pointing to some news coverage in which grid operators allege that the grid is stressed in the DMV area.
  - AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
    The grid is constantly "stressed" everywhere, because they're designed to be. You don't build five times as much capacity as you need at huge expense for no reason, you design the thing to have only slightly more capacity than you expect to need. If demand increases you have to build more generation and power lines etc. This is not a problem but for NIMBYs, it's just the logical consequence. If the local population increases and you don't have enough grocery stores you don't say "grocery stores are stressed" and regard it as an insurmountable problem, people just open more of them.
    - throwaway2037 6mo ago
      Chef's kiss for this reply. It is perfect. I like how you reframed the argument around grocery stores. It would be ridiculous to write a newspaper article about "grocery stores are stressed" and there is a newly proposed "controversial grocery store". NIMBYists will perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to defend their positions.