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Being familiar with Ayer from his Epistemology works, this writeup was unexpected. How could an empiricist write "My recent experiences have slightly weakened m

by oxag3n 6mo ago

Being familiar with Ayer from his Epistemology works, this writeup was unexpected. How could an empiricist write "My recent experiences have slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death, which is due fairly soon, will be the end of me". It also directly contradicted his stance about metaphycal claims.

slibhb 6mo ago
An empiricist could write that with no contradiction if he experienced it, which Ayer did. I think his conclusion is very reasonable. It's highly likely that NDEs are minds sputtering to a stop. But if you experience one (while your heart has stopped for 4 minutes no less), it seems rational to "slightly" update your priors towards the possibility of some kind of afterlife. At the very least, it may indicate some kind of conscious experience after you're "dead" but before your brain significantly degrades. That aside, I will say that his experience sounds a lot like a DMT trip. Particularly the sense that "space, like a badly fitting jigsaw puzzle, was slightly out of joint" and the feeling of being in the presence of "the government of the universe".
- deleted 6mo ago
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- oxag3n 6mo ago
  His conclusion is based on anecdotal evidence from his French friend's mother: "This experience could well have been delusive. A slight indication that it might have been veridical [objectively real] has been supplied by my French friend, or rather by her mother, who also underwent a heart arrest many years ago. When her daughter asked her what it had been like, she replied that all that she remembered was that she must stay close to the red light." A "slight indication", which if I read correctly leads to "slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death...". Isn't this kind of reasoning common for metaphysics but is met with skepticism by empiricists?
  - slibhb 6mo ago
    His conclusion is based on his own experience first and foremost. But your use of "anecdote" in a derogatory way is misplaced. There's no "rule" in empiricism that says "anecdotes are off limits" -- anecdotes are legitimate data. If you experience X and someone says "I experienced X too" there's no reason to disregard their testimony. Anecdotes are suspect when there's a large amount of evidence that contradicts them. Also, they should only cause you to update your beliefs slightly (which is the case here). > A "slight indication", which if I read correctly leads to "slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death...". Isn't this kind of reasoning common for metaphysics but is met with skepticism by empiricists? Using evidence (experience) to update your degree of belief is in every way empiricist. Metaphysicians have often been criticized for making claims without evidence, or claiming to make deduction from little/no evidence. But that's not happening here.
mellosouls 6mo ago
Clearly he wrote it as an intellectually honest response to something he experienced, which is the very least expected of an empiricist and therefore consistent with the practice; implied contradictions are opportunities for further reflection and investigation, certainly not reasons to immediately reject the evidence.

by oxag3n 6mo ago

slibhb 6mo ago

An empiricist could write that with no contradiction if he experienced it, which Ayer did. I think his conclusion is very reasonable. It's highly likely that NDEs are minds sputtering to a stop. But if you experience one (while your heart has stopped for 4 minutes no less), it seems rational to "slightly" update your priors towards the possibility of some kind of afterlife. At the very least, it may indicate some kind of conscious experience after you're "dead" but before your brain significantly degrades. That aside, I will say that his experience sounds a lot like a DMT trip. Particularly the sense that "space, like a badly fitting jigsaw puzzle, was slightly out of joint" and the feeling of being in the presence of "the government of the universe".

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
oxag3n 6mo ago
His conclusion is based on anecdotal evidence from his French friend's mother: "This experience could well have been delusive. A slight indication that it might have been veridical [objectively real] has been supplied by my French friend, or rather by her mother, who also underwent a heart arrest many years ago. When her daughter asked her what it had been like, she replied that all that she remembered was that she must stay close to the red light." A "slight indication", which if I read correctly leads to "slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death...". Isn't this kind of reasoning common for metaphysics but is met with skepticism by empiricists?
- slibhb 6mo ago
  His conclusion is based on his own experience first and foremost. But your use of "anecdote" in a derogatory way is misplaced. There's no "rule" in empiricism that says "anecdotes are off limits" -- anecdotes are legitimate data. If you experience X and someone says "I experienced X too" there's no reason to disregard their testimony. Anecdotes are suspect when there's a large amount of evidence that contradicts them. Also, they should only cause you to update your beliefs slightly (which is the case here). > A "slight indication", which if I read correctly leads to "slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death...". Isn't this kind of reasoning common for metaphysics but is met with skepticism by empiricists? Using evidence (experience) to update your degree of belief is in every way empiricist. Metaphysicians have often been criticized for making claims without evidence, or claiming to make deduction from little/no evidence. But that's not happening here.

mellosouls 6mo ago

Clearly he wrote it as an intellectually honest response to something he experienced, which is the very least expected of an empiricist and therefore consistent with the practice; implied contradictions are opportunities for further reflection and investigation, certainly not reasons to immediately reject the evidence.