4 ms·

Simply replacing Excel will be a massive challenge. I root for it, but it will be difficult.

rolph 6mo ago
LibreOffice Calc: Free Spreadsheet Software for Windows, Mac, and Linux https://en.libre-office.fr/article.php/libreoffice-calc-free-spreadsheet-software-for-windows-mac-and-linux https://en.libre-office.fr/article.php/libreoffice-calc-free... give it a go. Ive never had problems for my use case.
- cookiengineer 6mo ago
  > LibreOffice Calc Mentioning libreoffice as competitor to Excel and Access is like you haven't understood the market, at all. Excel is a cross department business automation database, which can sync/pull/push datasets across filesystems and networks. VBA is the single most used language in Enterprise because it allows to automate pretty much any financial workflow. And more importantly: automated by non-programmers. Libreoffice is made for private users, and that's not the same users that VBA powered office documents have.
  - rolph 6mo ago
    are you trying to say that i cant use libre, to automate, share, or collaborate datasets across a network? https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vbasupport.html https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vb... are you trying to say its too hard to step into libre from VBS? https://libreoffice-basic-reference.readthedocs.io/en/latest/libreoffice-basic-vs-vba/libreoffice-basic-vs-vba.html https://libreoffice-basic-reference.readthedocs.io/en/latest... you can stay with MS if you want, but really you dont have to. also i didnt mention libre as competitor, but as replacement.
    - Vaslo 6mo ago
      You can do all those things. But as someone who used VBA extensively and often got hired because of my automation skills, not having VBA and other aspects of excel would be a non-starter.
      - rolph 6mo ago
        your sure? its really not that hard, and it might be useful, if MS ends up finding that final straw that breaks it for everyone, you would be better off having a head start and level ground, rather than staring up a wall for employment. i recommend you orient to it, for future proofing. scripting: https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/shared/guide/scripting.html https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/shared/guide/... API: https://api.libreoffice.org/docs/idl/ref/annotated.html https://api.libreoffice.org/docs/idl/ref/annotated.html BASIC: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/BASIC_Guide https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/BASIC_Guid... Working with VBA Macros https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vbasupport.html https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vb...
    - cookiengineer 6mo ago
      It's not a question about implementability. It's a question about compatibility. As long as xlsx files have to be modified, libre office is a non replacement. No business would even dare to risk this from an operational perspective. That's my whole point, and the whole argument why Microsoft created their own "dip" with it. If you as an open source promoter within the company tell C-staff that "you found a solution that might be compatible" they gonna ask you what exactly needs what amount of time. And believe me when I tell you, even getting a sharepoint workflow to run with libreoffice is almost impossible without replacing pretty much everything underneath it. Making MS office as uninteroperable as possible is the reason companies cannot switch, because they have a legal requirement to archive and access the document for at least 10 years (in some industries up to 20 years when it comes to book keeping and accounting). So if you propose libreoffice as a solution that - isn't compatible 1:1 - isn't even guessable how long it takes - forces unpredictable infrastructure changes - ends up not rendering your documents that are _legally mandated_ Then guess what the response of your CEO will be. No amount of downvotes or "opinions" on what is better will change this. I'm a proponent of open source, but leadership of libreoffice does not seem to understand _why_ companies are using Microsoft office. And that is the core problem that has to be fixed. There needs to be a predictable and guaranteeable migration path. And as long as there isn't even a converter wizard or anything that helps you with that, libreoffice is a non starter.
      - rolph 6mo ago
        its all too hard, seems to be the source of friction.
  - vrganj 6mo ago
    The French government decided on Grist as their replacement. It looks pretty promising: https://www.getgrist.com/ https://www.getgrist.com/
- karmakurtisaani 6mo ago
  I'm familiar with it, no worries. But my company does way too much with Excel and has in-house coded plug-ins to extend it's functionality. It's not going anywhere.
Waterluvian 6mo ago
I feel like Excel is their one true moat. Everything else is a business play, but Excel is the only truly superior tech compared to the alternatives.
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Besides just being everywhere and being ubiquitous (which isn't really a "tech benefit" anyways) what exactly makes Excel "truly superior tech compared to the alternatives"?
  - Waterluvian 6mo ago
    There’s a lot of features. I think the one I would present is the enormously complex backwards compatibility support. Companies run on .xls / .xlsx files even if developers are offended by how they use and share them. I think a lot of “just use Libre Office” arguments are much like “just use Linux.” There’s a deep misunderstanding of what the value is with Excel. Being technically equivalent with features scores very few points.
    - cwnyth 6mo ago
      I've never experienced any compatibility issues with XLS(X) in LibreOffice Calc, and I've been Windows-free for over a decade. Sure, some spreadsheets might have unique functions in it, but I doubt that's the case for the majority over people using Excel. I'd also argue that Excel is holding back businesses. Instead of storing information in CSVs (for R or Python processing) or SQL, people rely on it when they shouldn't. It's not just that developers dislike Excel, it's that using it frequently causes huge errors: https://theconversation.com/the-reinhart-rogoff-error-or-how-not-to-excel-at-economics-13646 https://theconversation.com/the-reinhart-rogoff-error-or-how...
      - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
        [dead]
      - 6mo ago
hahajk 6mo ago
I managed to convince my org to put up a Grist instance. I now use it for everything I would normally use Sheets for, plus a whole lot more. Row/columnwise permissions, file attachments, multiple views over data, python formulas... It's a db not a spreadsheet but it's basically the tool I actually needed when I would reach for excel.
HiPhish 6mo ago
Excel is the most widely used document format, database, software runtime, GUI framework and note taking app. It gives Emacs a run for its money in how much you can abuse and overuse one application.
- gerdesj 6mo ago
  Six wrongs don't make a right 8)

rolph 6mo ago

LibreOffice Calc: Free Spreadsheet Software for Windows, Mac, and Linux https://en.libre-office.fr/article.php/libreoffice-calc-free-spreadsheet-software-for-windows-mac-and-linux https://en.libre-office.fr/article.php/libreoffice-calc-free... give it a go. Ive never had problems for my use case.

cookiengineer 6mo ago
> LibreOffice Calc Mentioning libreoffice as competitor to Excel and Access is like you haven't understood the market, at all. Excel is a cross department business automation database, which can sync/pull/push datasets across filesystems and networks. VBA is the single most used language in Enterprise because it allows to automate pretty much any financial workflow. And more importantly: automated by non-programmers. Libreoffice is made for private users, and that's not the same users that VBA powered office documents have.
- rolph 6mo ago
  are you trying to say that i cant use libre, to automate, share, or collaborate datasets across a network? https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vbasupport.html https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vb... are you trying to say its too hard to step into libre from VBS? https://libreoffice-basic-reference.readthedocs.io/en/latest/libreoffice-basic-vs-vba/libreoffice-basic-vs-vba.html https://libreoffice-basic-reference.readthedocs.io/en/latest... you can stay with MS if you want, but really you dont have to. also i didnt mention libre as competitor, but as replacement.
  - Vaslo 6mo ago
    You can do all those things. But as someone who used VBA extensively and often got hired because of my automation skills, not having VBA and other aspects of excel would be a non-starter.
    - rolph 6mo ago
      your sure? its really not that hard, and it might be useful, if MS ends up finding that final straw that breaks it for everyone, you would be better off having a head start and level ground, rather than staring up a wall for employment. i recommend you orient to it, for future proofing. scripting: https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/shared/guide/scripting.html https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/en-US/text/shared/guide/... API: https://api.libreoffice.org/docs/idl/ref/annotated.html https://api.libreoffice.org/docs/idl/ref/annotated.html BASIC: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/BASIC_Guide https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/BASIC_Guid... Working with VBA Macros https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vbasupport.html https://help.libreoffice.org/latest/lo/text/sbasic/shared/vb...
  - cookiengineer 6mo ago
    It's not a question about implementability. It's a question about compatibility. As long as xlsx files have to be modified, libre office is a non replacement. No business would even dare to risk this from an operational perspective. That's my whole point, and the whole argument why Microsoft created their own "dip" with it. If you as an open source promoter within the company tell C-staff that "you found a solution that might be compatible" they gonna ask you what exactly needs what amount of time. And believe me when I tell you, even getting a sharepoint workflow to run with libreoffice is almost impossible without replacing pretty much everything underneath it. Making MS office as uninteroperable as possible is the reason companies cannot switch, because they have a legal requirement to archive and access the document for at least 10 years (in some industries up to 20 years when it comes to book keeping and accounting). So if you propose libreoffice as a solution that - isn't compatible 1:1 - isn't even guessable how long it takes - forces unpredictable infrastructure changes - ends up not rendering your documents that are _legally mandated_ Then guess what the response of your CEO will be. No amount of downvotes or "opinions" on what is better will change this. I'm a proponent of open source, but leadership of libreoffice does not seem to understand _why_ companies are using Microsoft office. And that is the core problem that has to be fixed. There needs to be a predictable and guaranteeable migration path. And as long as there isn't even a converter wizard or anything that helps you with that, libreoffice is a non starter.
    - rolph 6mo ago
      its all too hard, seems to be the source of friction.
- vrganj 6mo ago
  The French government decided on Grist as their replacement. It looks pretty promising: https://www.getgrist.com/ https://www.getgrist.com/
karmakurtisaani 6mo ago
I'm familiar with it, no worries. But my company does way too much with Excel and has in-house coded plug-ins to extend it's functionality. It's not going anywhere.

Waterluvian 6mo ago

I feel like Excel is their one true moat. Everything else is a business play, but Excel is the only truly superior tech compared to the alternatives.

embedding-shape 6mo ago
Besides just being everywhere and being ubiquitous (which isn't really a "tech benefit" anyways) what exactly makes Excel "truly superior tech compared to the alternatives"?
- Waterluvian 6mo ago
  There’s a lot of features. I think the one I would present is the enormously complex backwards compatibility support. Companies run on .xls / .xlsx files even if developers are offended by how they use and share them. I think a lot of “just use Libre Office” arguments are much like “just use Linux.” There’s a deep misunderstanding of what the value is with Excel. Being technically equivalent with features scores very few points.
  - cwnyth 6mo ago
    I've never experienced any compatibility issues with XLS(X) in LibreOffice Calc, and I've been Windows-free for over a decade. Sure, some spreadsheets might have unique functions in it, but I doubt that's the case for the majority over people using Excel. I'd also argue that Excel is holding back businesses. Instead of storing information in CSVs (for R or Python processing) or SQL, people rely on it when they shouldn't. It's not just that developers dislike Excel, it's that using it frequently causes huge errors: https://theconversation.com/the-reinhart-rogoff-error-or-how-not-to-excel-at-economics-13646 https://theconversation.com/the-reinhart-rogoff-error-or-how...
    - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
      [dead]
    - 6mo ago

hahajk 6mo ago

I managed to convince my org to put up a Grist instance. I now use it for everything I would normally use Sheets for, plus a whole lot more. Row/columnwise permissions, file attachments, multiple views over data, python formulas... It's a db not a spreadsheet but it's basically the tool I actually needed when I would reach for excel.

HiPhish 6mo ago

Excel is the most widely used document format, database, software runtime, GUI framework and note taking app. It gives Emacs a run for its money in how much you can abuse and overuse one application.

gerdesj 6mo ago
Six wrongs don't make a right 8)