4 ms·

A lot would change for a few, not for the 8b people on this planet.

gljiva 6mo ago
I am considering the absolute impact on those affected, which is the most relevant for this discussion. Millions are not "a few". And it's absolutely unnecessary, the aggressor has always been in the position to pull back and leave (or not attack at all). Everyone but _a few_ war profiteers suffers from war, because it requires hours of work (weapons) diverted towards destroying other hours of work (cars, houses, infrastructure), occupying workers' time by ordering them to kill future workers, all of which could go towards increasing production instead of decreasing it, which does affect global markets and thus people globally.
- nullorempty 6mo ago
  Both sides had the option to de-escalate. All Ukraine needed to do is to implement Minks agreements instead of killing ppl of donbass.
  - gljiva 6mo ago
    Had? Ukraine still has the option to capitulate and give up its territory, what kind of argument is that? Separatists who take up arms are a fair target, they are the ones violently changing the status quo. When both sides kill civilians in a war started by one side, that side's further escalation is not at all justified by "killing ppl of donbass", so let's not manipulatively paint a "both sides" picture as if there isn't a huge difference
    - nullorempty 6mo ago
      2014 coup ousted democratically elected president. Some people disagreed. Minsk agreement was supposed to solve it peacefully. Alas, the intention of the agreement was to build-up ukraine's army for war with russia. War was in the cards already really. Still is - all out europe vs russia war.
      - tim333 6mo ago
        Yanukovych was removed by >Parliament votes 328-0 to impeach Yanukovych on Feb. 22; sets May 25 for new election funny sort of coup.
        kelipso 6mo ago
        After he fled the country fearing for his life… Nice try lol.
        oneshtein 6mo ago
        He can return and face the court.
        nullorempty 6mo ago
        Yanukovich ran for his fucking life they night of Feb 21 - to avoid being captured and just fucking killed. Because that's what revolutions do. 18–21 February 2014 - Maidan coup - ended with Yanukovich fleeing.
        tim333 6mo ago
        You can debate if the 'Revolution of Dignity' was a good thing or not, but some other country impeaching their leader for human rights violations and holding new elections is a poor reason to invade it. Obviously Putin thought Yanukovych was his guy and if the Ukranians dared to kick him out and have democracy he'd just have to invade and install a new puppet but is that really a coup? Google has: >A popular uprising is not typically considered a coup. An uprising is a broad, public, and often spontaneous mass movement aimed at social or political change, while a coup (coup d'état) is a rapid seizure of power by a small, elite group, such as the military or political insiders.
        kelipso 6mo ago
        A “popular uprising” is basically just a coup with a public relations veil.
  - tim333 6mo ago
    The Donbass thing was down to a lot of false flag stuff from Russia who'd been plotting to take back Ukraine for ages. A lot done by Grikin who fully admitted it https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strel...

I am considering the absolute impact on those affected, which is the most relevant for this discussion. Millions are not "a few". And it's absolutely unnecessary, the aggressor has always been in the position to pull back and leave (or not attack at all). Everyone but _a few_ war profiteers suffers from war, because it requires hours of work (weapons) diverted towards destroying other hours of work (cars, houses, infrastructure), occupying workers' time by ordering them to kill future workers, all of which could go towards increasing production instead of decreasing it, which does affect global markets and thus people globally.

nullorempty 6mo ago
Both sides had the option to de-escalate. All Ukraine needed to do is to implement Minks agreements instead of killing ppl of donbass.
- gljiva 6mo ago
  Had? Ukraine still has the option to capitulate and give up its territory, what kind of argument is that? Separatists who take up arms are a fair target, they are the ones violently changing the status quo. When both sides kill civilians in a war started by one side, that side's further escalation is not at all justified by "killing ppl of donbass", so let's not manipulatively paint a "both sides" picture as if there isn't a huge difference
  - nullorempty 6mo ago
    2014 coup ousted democratically elected president. Some people disagreed. Minsk agreement was supposed to solve it peacefully. Alas, the intention of the agreement was to build-up ukraine's army for war with russia. War was in the cards already really. Still is - all out europe vs russia war.
    - tim333 6mo ago
      Yanukovych was removed by >Parliament votes 328-0 to impeach Yanukovych on Feb. 22; sets May 25 for new election funny sort of coup.
      - kelipso 6mo ago
        After he fled the country fearing for his life… Nice try lol.
        oneshtein 6mo ago
        He can return and face the court.
        nullorempty 6mo ago
        Yanukovich ran for his fucking life they night of Feb 21 - to avoid being captured and just fucking killed. Because that's what revolutions do. 18–21 February 2014 - Maidan coup - ended with Yanukovich fleeing.
        tim333 6mo ago
        You can debate if the 'Revolution of Dignity' was a good thing or not, but some other country impeaching their leader for human rights violations and holding new elections is a poor reason to invade it. Obviously Putin thought Yanukovych was his guy and if the Ukranians dared to kick him out and have democracy he'd just have to invade and install a new puppet but is that really a coup? Google has: >A popular uprising is not typically considered a coup. An uprising is a broad, public, and often spontaneous mass movement aimed at social or political change, while a coup (coup d'état) is a rapid seizure of power by a small, elite group, such as the military or political insiders.
        kelipso 6mo ago
        A “popular uprising” is basically just a coup with a public relations veil.
- tim333 6mo ago
  The Donbass thing was down to a lot of false flag stuff from Russia who'd been plotting to take back Ukraine for ages. A lot done by Grikin who fully admitted it https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strel...