4 ms·

Actually, a lot would change. Each one of the Ukrainian lives destroyed is a whole life destroyed. A damaged car is a setback for a family. There are whole citi

by gljiva 6mo ago

Actually, a lot would change. Each one of the Ukrainian lives destroyed is a whole life destroyed. A damaged car is a setback for a family. There are whole cities and villages razed in Ukraine, fields polluted or rigged with explosives. Countless lives lost; each person's story and potential ended by some Russian's "command-following" drone or missile strike. No, Russia isn't the only one, but _is_ a cause of a lot of suffering and resources wasted.

nullorempty 6mo ago
A lot would change for a few, not for the 8b people on this planet.
- gljiva 6mo ago
  I am considering the absolute impact on those affected, which is the most relevant for this discussion. Millions are not "a few". And it's absolutely unnecessary, the aggressor has always been in the position to pull back and leave (or not attack at all). Everyone but _a few_ war profiteers suffers from war, because it requires hours of work (weapons) diverted towards destroying other hours of work (cars, houses, infrastructure), occupying workers' time by ordering them to kill future workers, all of which could go towards increasing production instead of decreasing it, which does affect global markets and thus people globally.
  - nullorempty 6mo ago
    Both sides had the option to de-escalate. All Ukraine needed to do is to implement Minks agreements instead of killing ppl of donbass.
    - gljiva 6mo ago
      Had? Ukraine still has the option to capitulate and give up its territory, what kind of argument is that? Separatists who take up arms are a fair target, they are the ones violently changing the status quo. When both sides kill civilians in a war started by one side, that side's further escalation is not at all justified by "killing ppl of donbass", so let's not manipulatively paint a "both sides" picture as if there isn't a huge difference
      - nullorempty 6mo ago
        2014 coup ousted democratically elected president. Some people disagreed. Minsk agreement was supposed to solve it peacefully. Alas, the intention of the agreement was to build-up ukraine's army for war with russia. War was in the cards already really. Still is - all out europe vs russia war.
        tim333 6mo ago
        Yanukovych was removed by >Parliament votes 328-0 to impeach Yanukovych on Feb. 22; sets May 25 for new election funny sort of coup.
        kelipso 6mo ago
        After he fled the country fearing for his life… Nice try lol.
        oneshtein 6mo ago
        He can return and face the court.
        nullorempty 6mo ago
        Yanukovich ran for his fucking life they night of Feb 21 - to avoid being captured and just fucking killed. Because that's what revolutions do. 18–21 February 2014 - Maidan coup - ended with Yanukovich fleeing.
        tim333 6mo ago
        You can debate if the 'Revolution of Dignity' was a good thing or not, but some other country impeaching their leader for human rights violations and holding new elections is a poor reason to invade it. Obviously Putin thought Yanukovych was his guy and if the Ukranians dared to kick him out and have democracy he'd just have to invade and install a new puppet but is that really a coup? Google has: >A popular uprising is not typically considered a coup. An uprising is a broad, public, and often spontaneous mass movement aimed at social or political change, while a coup (coup d'état) is a rapid seizure of power by a small, elite group, such as the military or political insiders.
    - tim333 6mo ago
      The Donbass thing was down to a lot of false flag stuff from Russia who'd been plotting to take back Ukraine for ages. A lot done by Grikin who fully admitted it https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strel...
thatsamejew2 6mo ago
[flagged]
- gljiva 6mo ago
  If Russia didn't want a war there wouldn't be one. I didn't make anything. As someone living in a country with a hostile neighbour, I'm glad the governments currently continue to coexist, even if mine could get an economic advantage or "a safety buffer" by invading the other. NATO's peaceful expansion towards east is not just, but it isn't a sufficient cause of war either, far from it.
  - nullorempty 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - gljiva 6mo ago
      Ah, a time-wasting Russian bot spamming "questions". https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/russia-ukraine-bioweapons-misinformation/ https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/russia-ukraine-bioweapon... Ukraine needed to arm itself for protecting its borders and reclaiming its territory taken by Russian separatists. Decide whether you want to play the "Russia's captured territory" or "Lugansk and Donbas Republic" that were no Russian business card. Btw, you keep acting as if it all started in 2022. Since 2014. Russia has been the aggressor, and I won't waste any more time on your manipulative time-wasting, "both sides" rethoric that's frankly disgusting when I remember that you well know what it supports
      - nullorempty 6mo ago
        Right, the coup of 2014 ousted democratically elected president and part of a country disagreed. As far as russian vs ukranian... It's basically one nation. Many russians have ukranian blood in them, many ukranians have russian blood in them. There are million's of ukranians working in russia today. The divide was engineered from outside and it was well engineered. Divide and concur is an old strategy and the west is very-very good at it. Russian and Ukranians are too gullible. Less so now, but in 2014 they were like children. And Ukranians at Maidan were treated like children by Nuland who brought them cookies, quite fittingly.

by gljiva 6mo ago

nullorempty 6mo ago

A lot would change for a few, not for the 8b people on this planet.

gljiva 6mo ago
I am considering the absolute impact on those affected, which is the most relevant for this discussion. Millions are not "a few". And it's absolutely unnecessary, the aggressor has always been in the position to pull back and leave (or not attack at all). Everyone but _a few_ war profiteers suffers from war, because it requires hours of work (weapons) diverted towards destroying other hours of work (cars, houses, infrastructure), occupying workers' time by ordering them to kill future workers, all of which could go towards increasing production instead of decreasing it, which does affect global markets and thus people globally.
- nullorempty 6mo ago
  Both sides had the option to de-escalate. All Ukraine needed to do is to implement Minks agreements instead of killing ppl of donbass.
  - gljiva 6mo ago
    Had? Ukraine still has the option to capitulate and give up its territory, what kind of argument is that? Separatists who take up arms are a fair target, they are the ones violently changing the status quo. When both sides kill civilians in a war started by one side, that side's further escalation is not at all justified by "killing ppl of donbass", so let's not manipulatively paint a "both sides" picture as if there isn't a huge difference
    - nullorempty 6mo ago
      2014 coup ousted democratically elected president. Some people disagreed. Minsk agreement was supposed to solve it peacefully. Alas, the intention of the agreement was to build-up ukraine's army for war with russia. War was in the cards already really. Still is - all out europe vs russia war.
      - tim333 6mo ago
        Yanukovych was removed by >Parliament votes 328-0 to impeach Yanukovych on Feb. 22; sets May 25 for new election funny sort of coup.
        kelipso 6mo ago
        After he fled the country fearing for his life… Nice try lol.
        oneshtein 6mo ago
        He can return and face the court.
        nullorempty 6mo ago
        Yanukovich ran for his fucking life they night of Feb 21 - to avoid being captured and just fucking killed. Because that's what revolutions do. 18–21 February 2014 - Maidan coup - ended with Yanukovich fleeing.
        tim333 6mo ago
        You can debate if the 'Revolution of Dignity' was a good thing or not, but some other country impeaching their leader for human rights violations and holding new elections is a poor reason to invade it. Obviously Putin thought Yanukovych was his guy and if the Ukranians dared to kick him out and have democracy he'd just have to invade and install a new puppet but is that really a coup? Google has: >A popular uprising is not typically considered a coup. An uprising is a broad, public, and often spontaneous mass movement aimed at social or political change, while a coup (coup d'état) is a rapid seizure of power by a small, elite group, such as the military or political insiders.
  - tim333 6mo ago
    The Donbass thing was down to a lot of false flag stuff from Russia who'd been plotting to take back Ukraine for ages. A lot done by Grikin who fully admitted it https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strelkov-i-am-responsible-for-war-in-eastern-ukraine-a41598 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/21/russias-igor-strel...

thatsamejew2 6mo ago

[flagged]

gljiva 6mo ago
If Russia didn't want a war there wouldn't be one. I didn't make anything. As someone living in a country with a hostile neighbour, I'm glad the governments currently continue to coexist, even if mine could get an economic advantage or "a safety buffer" by invading the other. NATO's peaceful expansion towards east is not just, but it isn't a sufficient cause of war either, far from it.
- nullorempty 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - gljiva 6mo ago
    Ah, a time-wasting Russian bot spamming "questions". https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/russia-ukraine-bioweapons-misinformation/ https://theintercept.com/2022/03/17/russia-ukraine-bioweapon... Ukraine needed to arm itself for protecting its borders and reclaiming its territory taken by Russian separatists. Decide whether you want to play the "Russia's captured territory" or "Lugansk and Donbas Republic" that were no Russian business card. Btw, you keep acting as if it all started in 2022. Since 2014. Russia has been the aggressor, and I won't waste any more time on your manipulative time-wasting, "both sides" rethoric that's frankly disgusting when I remember that you well know what it supports
    - nullorempty 6mo ago
      Right, the coup of 2014 ousted democratically elected president and part of a country disagreed. As far as russian vs ukranian... It's basically one nation. Many russians have ukranian blood in them, many ukranians have russian blood in them. There are million's of ukranians working in russia today. The divide was engineered from outside and it was well engineered. Divide and concur is an old strategy and the west is very-very good at it. Russian and Ukranians are too gullible. Less so now, but in 2014 they were like children. And Ukranians at Maidan were treated like children by Nuland who brought them cookies, quite fittingly.