5 ms·

Business is wordpress.com, this is wordpress.org -- explicitly not part of Automattic but an "independent" open source project. Obviously it isn't, but that's

Business is wordpress.com, this is wordpress.org -- explicitly not part of Automattic but an "independent" open source project. Obviously it isn't, but that's what Matt likes to pretend.

graemep 6mo ago
This is something people seem to miss. His position as CEO of Automattic creates a huge conflict of interest with his position at the non-profit foundation. This is an example: the foundation's code gives special treatment to an Automattic product.
- kstrauser 6mo ago
  I don't think anyone but Matt is missing the significance of that.
  - graemep 6mo ago
    People do not know about it. Look at the current top rated comment on this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47824925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47824925
    - kstrauser 6mo ago
      I wrote that comment.
      - graemep 6mo ago
        Oops, sorry, did not notice. Were you aware of it and its relevance to this decision at the time you wrote the comment? My interpretation of your defence of it as just the CEO making a product decision was that you did not know. If you did know it seems to miss the point which is that he made a decision that was better for his company but worse for Wordpress. It would be fine if Wordpress was developed by Automattic, but its not.
        kstrauser 6mo ago
        I was aware of it, but as an outsider, this actually seemed like a reasonable decision. Wordpress sites that allow external comments need some kind of comment moderation, lest they become instant spam cesspits. The CEO said hey, we're adding this section to feature suggested plugins, and we should add this long-time anti-spam plugin to it. In a vacuum, that looks fine to me. I'd rather see them emphasizing comment moderation than talking up a commercial add-on. Sure, this is a subscription they sell to businesses, so it's not a charitable work. It's one of the more defensible subscriptions I can think of, though. And I really don't see it as worse for Wordpress. It's the kind of thing I think they should be recommending because it benefits the whole ecosystsem. To be super clear, I am far, far from a Matt/Automattic (same thing) fanboy. I think this was a good decision in spite of my opinion of him, not because of it.
        graemep 6mo ago
        > The CEO said hey, we're adding this section to feature suggested plugins, and we should add this long-time anti-spam plugin to it. In a vacuum The lead developer of a not for profit project said lets favour the anti-spam plugin that is provided by the company I am CEO of. Is that an entirely impartial decision? > And I really don't see it as worse for Wordpress. It's the kind of thing I think they should be recommending because it benefits the whole ecosystsem. All the Wordpress core committers apart from the two that work for Automattic disagree with you as far as I can tell.
Arnt 6mo ago
Some people have a view of open source contributors as some sort of amorphous mass of strangers, and that leads to unrealistic suppositions. The contributors aren't really amorphous, they exist, they're knowable, they have personalities and jobs. A project such as wordpress(.org) depends very strongly on those who do the work. And in the case of Wordpress, that's some spare-time volunteers, some employees of other companies, but the biggest group is Automattic employees. If you do most of the work, as Automattic does, the project depends on you and you get to call the shots.
- luckylion 6mo ago
  I understand that point, but I disagree. Automattic controls the process, which keeps a lot of initiatives out because there's no reasonable expectation of improvement unless it aligns with Automattic. I don't believe the project would fold were Automattic to quit -- there's a lot activity outside of the core that is alienated by Matt's behavior. Might well be an improvement if the focus of .org isn't about what .com needs, but about what .org wants to offer to users.

Business is wordpress.com, this is wordpress.org -- explicitly not part of Automattic but an "independent" open source project. Obviously it isn't, but that's what Matt likes to pretend.

graemep 6mo ago

This is something people seem to miss. His position as CEO of Automattic creates a huge conflict of interest with his position at the non-profit foundation. This is an example: the foundation's code gives special treatment to an Automattic product.

kstrauser 6mo ago
I don't think anyone but Matt is missing the significance of that.
- graemep 6mo ago
  People do not know about it. Look at the current top rated comment on this post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47824925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47824925
  - kstrauser 6mo ago
    I wrote that comment.
    - graemep 6mo ago
      Oops, sorry, did not notice. Were you aware of it and its relevance to this decision at the time you wrote the comment? My interpretation of your defence of it as just the CEO making a product decision was that you did not know. If you did know it seems to miss the point which is that he made a decision that was better for his company but worse for Wordpress. It would be fine if Wordpress was developed by Automattic, but its not.
      - kstrauser 6mo ago
        I was aware of it, but as an outsider, this actually seemed like a reasonable decision. Wordpress sites that allow external comments need some kind of comment moderation, lest they become instant spam cesspits. The CEO said hey, we're adding this section to feature suggested plugins, and we should add this long-time anti-spam plugin to it. In a vacuum, that looks fine to me. I'd rather see them emphasizing comment moderation than talking up a commercial add-on. Sure, this is a subscription they sell to businesses, so it's not a charitable work. It's one of the more defensible subscriptions I can think of, though. And I really don't see it as worse for Wordpress. It's the kind of thing I think they should be recommending because it benefits the whole ecosystsem. To be super clear, I am far, far from a Matt/Automattic (same thing) fanboy. I think this was a good decision in spite of my opinion of him, not because of it.
        graemep 6mo ago
        > The CEO said hey, we're adding this section to feature suggested plugins, and we should add this long-time anti-spam plugin to it. In a vacuum The lead developer of a not for profit project said lets favour the anti-spam plugin that is provided by the company I am CEO of. Is that an entirely impartial decision? > And I really don't see it as worse for Wordpress. It's the kind of thing I think they should be recommending because it benefits the whole ecosystsem. All the Wordpress core committers apart from the two that work for Automattic disagree with you as far as I can tell.

Arnt 6mo ago

Some people have a view of open source contributors as some sort of amorphous mass of strangers, and that leads to unrealistic suppositions. The contributors aren't really amorphous, they exist, they're knowable, they have personalities and jobs. A project such as wordpress(.org) depends very strongly on those who do the work. And in the case of Wordpress, that's some spare-time volunteers, some employees of other companies, but the biggest group is Automattic employees. If you do most of the work, as Automattic does, the project depends on you and you get to call the shots.

luckylion 6mo ago
I understand that point, but I disagree. Automattic controls the process, which keeps a lot of initiatives out because there's no reasonable expectation of improvement unless it aligns with Automattic. I don't believe the project would fold were Automattic to quit -- there's a lot activity outside of the core that is alienated by Matt's behavior. Might well be an improvement if the focus of .org isn't about what .com needs, but about what .org wants to offer to users.