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As a father I can assure you you have no idea what you're talking about.

by XorNot 6mo ago

rybosome 6mo ago
Echoing this. The bond I have with my children is profound and primal. The idea that it’s “unnatural” for me to spend much time with them is so ridiculous as to be instantly dismissed. GP clearly doesn’t have kids or have close male friends who are involved with their kids.
- seibelj 6mo ago
  [dead]
steve_adams_86 6mo ago
I can't speak for the person you're responding to, but my default reaction to people who say things like this is that they probably don't have kids, and if they do, I wonder about the well-being of their family life. I don't mean that to be insulting at all. It seems completely incompatible with being a family- or community-involved person. And what's society without kids? Whether you're a parent or not, we need kids to do well. It makes no sense at all not to learn to be good with kids, to care about them, to invest in them, etc. They're firmly a core component of human society, certainly not going anywhere. And I can't imagine not spending a lot of time with my kids. It's one of the things I think about most. I like to do a lot of things, but they're one of the few things I can always say yes to. I want to take care of them, teach them, learn from them, listen to them, see them grow, whatever. It just feels good to be in their lives. There's nothing unnatural about it.
- goku12 6mo ago
  > I can't speak for the person you're responding to, but my default reaction to people who say things like this is that they probably don't have kids,... I don't have kids and it still sounds nonsensical. As a man, my instinct isn't to run away from my child if I had one. If life keeps men and their children apart, that's a different matter altogether. But I have seen other men yearn to be with their little kids. My father did the same when I was young. Some of them are their kids' sole caregiver for the majority of the time because life keeps the mother away from the child. And in all instances, I see strong paternal affection and instincts at play. I'm baffled by an assertion otherwise.
- toyg 6mo ago
  I have kids and I am quite the opposite. My interest in them is very occasional. Teaching anything takes a lot of work and they're typically not interested anyway. Most of the experiences they have at school, I have no real insight on. I like to see their interests develop, and I notice that my youngest would probably enjoy partnering with me on some things, but that is it. I'm sure that puts me on some spectrum, but that is how I feel and, whenever a few other dads I know take their guard down, they have a lot of similar feelings - but they cannot state them, because they have become socially unacceptable. Note also that a lot of what we consider "fatherhood" is a Western construct of the last 150 years, with falling birth rates and diffused wealth. Things were very different when families were poor and sprawling: fathers simply did not have significant time to spend with all their kids, when they had a dozen of them and were out of the house most of the day for work. Significant bonds would be developed only while working together, later in life.
  - theturtlemoves 6mo ago
    There are tribes where the mom cares for the sons until they're eight and then the boys are raised by the men from there on. Joining in the tasks the men do daily. That said, a lot of people don't bond for the sake of bonding, but bond over a shared task (one that really needs doing, not an invented game that mimicks a task..)
b65e8bee43c2ed0 6mo ago
N = 1. now compare the number of single mothers (≈ children abandoned by their fathers) vs the number of single fathers (≈ children abandoned by their mothers). for every helicopter dad there are ten guys who don't care about their offspring.
- XorNot 6mo ago
  "Look how many people get shot versus stabbed. Obviously the natural order is for people to get shot."
  - b65e8bee43c2ed0 6mo ago
    Yes.

As a father I can assure you you have no idea what you're talking about.

by XorNot 6mo ago

As a father I can assure you you have no idea what you're talking about.

Echoing this. The bond I have with my children is profound and primal. The idea that it’s “unnatural” for me to spend much time with them is so ridiculous as to be instantly dismissed. GP clearly doesn’t have kids or have close male friends who are involved with their kids.

seibelj 6mo ago
[dead]

steve_adams_86 6mo ago

I can't speak for the person you're responding to, but my default reaction to people who say things like this is that they probably don't have kids, and if they do, I wonder about the well-being of their family life. I don't mean that to be insulting at all. It seems completely incompatible with being a family- or community-involved person. And what's society without kids? Whether you're a parent or not, we need kids to do well. It makes no sense at all not to learn to be good with kids, to care about them, to invest in them, etc. They're firmly a core component of human society, certainly not going anywhere. And I can't imagine not spending a lot of time with my kids. It's one of the things I think about most. I like to do a lot of things, but they're one of the few things I can always say yes to. I want to take care of them, teach them, learn from them, listen to them, see them grow, whatever. It just feels good to be in their lives. There's nothing unnatural about it.

goku12 6mo ago
> I can't speak for the person you're responding to, but my default reaction to people who say things like this is that they probably don't have kids,... I don't have kids and it still sounds nonsensical. As a man, my instinct isn't to run away from my child if I had one. If life keeps men and their children apart, that's a different matter altogether. But I have seen other men yearn to be with their little kids. My father did the same when I was young. Some of them are their kids' sole caregiver for the majority of the time because life keeps the mother away from the child. And in all instances, I see strong paternal affection and instincts at play. I'm baffled by an assertion otherwise.
toyg 6mo ago
I have kids and I am quite the opposite. My interest in them is very occasional. Teaching anything takes a lot of work and they're typically not interested anyway. Most of the experiences they have at school, I have no real insight on. I like to see their interests develop, and I notice that my youngest would probably enjoy partnering with me on some things, but that is it. I'm sure that puts me on some spectrum, but that is how I feel and, whenever a few other dads I know take their guard down, they have a lot of similar feelings - but they cannot state them, because they have become socially unacceptable. Note also that a lot of what we consider "fatherhood" is a Western construct of the last 150 years, with falling birth rates and diffused wealth. Things were very different when families were poor and sprawling: fathers simply did not have significant time to spend with all their kids, when they had a dozen of them and were out of the house most of the day for work. Significant bonds would be developed only while working together, later in life.
- theturtlemoves 6mo ago
  There are tribes where the mom cares for the sons until they're eight and then the boys are raised by the men from there on. Joining in the tasks the men do daily. That said, a lot of people don't bond for the sake of bonding, but bond over a shared task (one that really needs doing, not an invented game that mimicks a task..)

b65e8bee43c2ed0 6mo ago

N = 1. now compare the number of single mothers (≈ children abandoned by their fathers) vs the number of single fathers (≈ children abandoned by their mothers). for every helicopter dad there are ten guys who don't care about their offspring.

XorNot 6mo ago
"Look how many people get shot versus stabbed. Obviously the natural order is for people to get shot."
- b65e8bee43c2ed0 6mo ago
  Yes.