3 ms·

I think it's important to remember that we're not perceiving some fundamental aspect of light. We're perceiving how the photosensitive portions of our retina co

I think it's important to remember that we're not perceiving some fundamental aspect of light. We're perceiving how the photosensitive portions of our retina convert light to stimulus, and how our brains construct a meaningful image from that stimulus in our mind. Like film photography doesn't happen in the lens or the world. It happens in that photosensitive chemical reaction, and the decision of the photographer.

TomatoCo 6mo ago
It reminds me of how vinyl records are fairly lossy, but they provide a superior experience in some cases because those limitations have been accounted for during the mastering process. It's an entire pipeline from photomultiplier to recording medium to the inverse process and everything is optimized not for any particular mathematical truth but for the subjective experience.
- hank808 6mo ago
  Most records these days use CDs as masters, sadly.
  - dotancohen 6mo ago
    Are you referring to the loudness wars?
  - hank808 6mo ago
    No. A friend of mine worked at United Record Pressing. The majority of the masters they received from customers were commercial CDs. No special master.
- com2kid 6mo ago
  Vinyls are sometimes preferred because people like white noise, same as tube amps. Granted some CDs are mastered like garbage, and that led to some bad press for awhile. But you can master a CD so that it sounds exactly, as in mathematically exactly, as a vinyl record, if so desired. It is also possible to make a digital amplifier that sounds exactly identical to vacuum tubes. Humans have well and mastered the art of shaping sound waveforms however we want.
  - XorNot 6mo ago
    I mean I've always thought the kinetic experience of vinyl was the point: my childhood memory is the excitement and anticipation of carefully putting the needle on the lead in and hearing the subtle pops and scratches that meant it was about to start. The whole physical enterprise has a narrative and anticipation to it.
    - dotancohen 6mo ago
      > carefully putting the needle on the lead in and hearing the subtle pops and scratches Led Zeppelin III actually used that lead in as part of the music experience, and the original CD pressing didn't capture it. I've heard CD pressings (even the name remains from vinyl) that do capture it, I don't know when that started.
      - close04 6mo ago
        > CD pressings (even the name remains from vinyl) The name comes from the CDs being manufactured by pressing into a master mold to create the pits. Replicated (mass manufactured) audio CDs are pressed not written with a laser like duplicated ones (CD-R/RW).
    - notahacker 6mo ago
      Not to mention the wider context of starting off by opening a beautifully designed record sleeve, and the chances people choosing to listening to vinyl are doing so on a beautifully engineered soundsystem that cost as much as a car when it was released 50 years ago, or a turntable setup that's designed for them to interact with.
      - TheOtherHobbes 6mo ago
        You could add all of that to CD. Bigger packaging for "audiophile pressings", a play ritual, extra distortion and compression, especially in the low end, limited dynamic ranges, minimal stereo separation, even a little randomness so each listening experiences was slightly different. This is consumer narcissism. It's the driver behind Veblen signalling - the principle that a combination of collecting physical objects. nostalgia, and the elevated taste and disposable wealth required to create a unique shrine to the superior self. Buying houses, watches, cars, vinyl, yachts, jets, and politicians are all the same syndrome. Some people take it further than others.
d0mine 6mo ago
> how our brain construct is the only part i.e., we perceive what brain predicts no more no less. Optical illusions demonstrate it well. Sometimes that prediction (our perception) correlates with the light reaching the retina. But it is a mistake to think that we can perceive it directly. For example, we do not see the black hole in our field of vision where there are no receptors (due to our eyes construction). Another example that makes the point clearer: there are no "wetness" receptors at all but we perceive wetness just fine.
- nkrisc 6mo ago
  It’s an important point: all our sensations are interpretations of readings from various sensing abilities. Which is why it can be so easy to produce false sensations of many things. It’s like tricking your fridge into turning the light off by pressing the little switch instead of closing the door. The fridge isn’t detecting when the door is closed, it’s detecting with that switch is pressed and interpreting that as meaning the door is closed. However that interpretation may not always be correct.
ChrisMarshallNY 6mo ago
If you pay attention to cats, you figure out they are fuzzy little “difference engines.” They seem to be hyper-tuned to things that change. For example, if I move a small item in the corner of my room, the next time the cat walks in, he’ll go straight to it, and sniff around. I have a feeling that cat’s eyes have some kind of “movement sensors,” built in. Maybe things that move look red, and most of the background looks grey.
- close04 6mo ago
  Even human eyes have some areas, outside the fovea centralis, that are very sensitive to motion even in low light. In the dark you will see motion out of the corner of your eye but you will only see pitch black if you stare in that direction. The other part you mention is more interesting, I noticed it too. That must be a mechanism in the brain rather than the eye. It’s like the cat keeps a “snapshot” of that place to compare against next time it comes by. This might also explain why they take the same route all the time, maybe it gives them a good reference against the old snapshots.
  - ninjagoo 6mo ago
    >> If you pay attention to cats, you figure out they are fuzzy little “difference engines.” > That must be a mechanism in the brain rather than the eye Check out "A Thousand Brains: A New Theory of Intelligence" [1] by Jeff Hawkins [2], of PalmPilot fame. This theory postulates, in part, and with evidence, that brains are continuously comparing sensory input and movement context with learned models. I found the book to be mind-blowing, so to speak ... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Brains-New-Theory-Intelligence/dp/1541675797/ https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Brains-New-Theory-Intelligen... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hawkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hawkins

TomatoCo 6mo ago

It reminds me of how vinyl records are fairly lossy, but they provide a superior experience in some cases because those limitations have been accounted for during the mastering process. It's an entire pipeline from photomultiplier to recording medium to the inverse process and everything is optimized not for any particular mathematical truth but for the subjective experience.

hank808 6mo ago
Most records these days use CDs as masters, sadly.
- dotancohen 6mo ago
  Are you referring to the loudness wars?
- hank808 6mo ago
  No. A friend of mine worked at United Record Pressing. The majority of the masters they received from customers were commercial CDs. No special master.
com2kid 6mo ago
Vinyls are sometimes preferred because people like white noise, same as tube amps. Granted some CDs are mastered like garbage, and that led to some bad press for awhile. But you can master a CD so that it sounds exactly, as in mathematically exactly, as a vinyl record, if so desired. It is also possible to make a digital amplifier that sounds exactly identical to vacuum tubes. Humans have well and mastered the art of shaping sound waveforms however we want.
- XorNot 6mo ago
  I mean I've always thought the kinetic experience of vinyl was the point: my childhood memory is the excitement and anticipation of carefully putting the needle on the lead in and hearing the subtle pops and scratches that meant it was about to start. The whole physical enterprise has a narrative and anticipation to it.
  - dotancohen 6mo ago
    > carefully putting the needle on the lead in and hearing the subtle pops and scratches Led Zeppelin III actually used that lead in as part of the music experience, and the original CD pressing didn't capture it. I've heard CD pressings (even the name remains from vinyl) that do capture it, I don't know when that started.
    - close04 6mo ago
      > CD pressings (even the name remains from vinyl) The name comes from the CDs being manufactured by pressing into a master mold to create the pits. Replicated (mass manufactured) audio CDs are pressed not written with a laser like duplicated ones (CD-R/RW).
  - notahacker 6mo ago
    Not to mention the wider context of starting off by opening a beautifully designed record sleeve, and the chances people choosing to listening to vinyl are doing so on a beautifully engineered soundsystem that cost as much as a car when it was released 50 years ago, or a turntable setup that's designed for them to interact with.
    - TheOtherHobbes 6mo ago
      You could add all of that to CD. Bigger packaging for "audiophile pressings", a play ritual, extra distortion and compression, especially in the low end, limited dynamic ranges, minimal stereo separation, even a little randomness so each listening experiences was slightly different. This is consumer narcissism. It's the driver behind Veblen signalling - the principle that a combination of collecting physical objects. nostalgia, and the elevated taste and disposable wealth required to create a unique shrine to the superior self. Buying houses, watches, cars, vinyl, yachts, jets, and politicians are all the same syndrome. Some people take it further than others.

d0mine 6mo ago

> how our brain construct is the only part i.e., we perceive what brain predicts no more no less. Optical illusions demonstrate it well. Sometimes that prediction (our perception) correlates with the light reaching the retina. But it is a mistake to think that we can perceive it directly. For example, we do not see the black hole in our field of vision where there are no receptors (due to our eyes construction). Another example that makes the point clearer: there are no "wetness" receptors at all but we perceive wetness just fine.

nkrisc 6mo ago
It’s an important point: all our sensations are interpretations of readings from various sensing abilities. Which is why it can be so easy to produce false sensations of many things. It’s like tricking your fridge into turning the light off by pressing the little switch instead of closing the door. The fridge isn’t detecting when the door is closed, it’s detecting with that switch is pressed and interpreting that as meaning the door is closed. However that interpretation may not always be correct.

ChrisMarshallNY 6mo ago

If you pay attention to cats, you figure out they are fuzzy little “difference engines.” They seem to be hyper-tuned to things that change. For example, if I move a small item in the corner of my room, the next time the cat walks in, he’ll go straight to it, and sniff around. I have a feeling that cat’s eyes have some kind of “movement sensors,” built in. Maybe things that move look red, and most of the background looks grey.

close04 6mo ago
Even human eyes have some areas, outside the fovea centralis, that are very sensitive to motion even in low light. In the dark you will see motion out of the corner of your eye but you will only see pitch black if you stare in that direction. The other part you mention is more interesting, I noticed it too. That must be a mechanism in the brain rather than the eye. It’s like the cat keeps a “snapshot” of that place to compare against next time it comes by. This might also explain why they take the same route all the time, maybe it gives them a good reference against the old snapshots.
- ninjagoo 6mo ago
  >> If you pay attention to cats, you figure out they are fuzzy little “difference engines.” > That must be a mechanism in the brain rather than the eye Check out "A Thousand Brains: A New Theory of Intelligence" [1] by Jeff Hawkins [2], of PalmPilot fame. This theory postulates, in part, and with evidence, that brains are continuously comparing sensory input and movement context with learned models. I found the book to be mind-blowing, so to speak ... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Brains-New-Theory-Intelligence/dp/1541675797/ https://www.amazon.com/Thousand-Brains-New-Theory-Intelligen... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hawkins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Hawkins