4 ms·

> College is about learning how to work in an industry. Oh

llbbdd 6mo ago
Education is a nice side effect sometimes but yeah, I don't know how you could reach any other conclusion. If you're motivated to learn for learning's sake, college is an annoying slog that you know you don't need post-millenium. I literally left college early and started making money instead of spending it, because I got tired of demonstrating to my professors that I already knew everything they were teaching and that it'd be a waste of time for me to come to class.
- sarchertech 6mo ago
  Or maybe you chose to waste your time because you treated college as a way to get a piece paper instead of as the only time in your life when you are surrounded by experts who will spend an hour a week answering any questions you can think of.
  - llbbdd 6mo ago
    No time wasted at all, that option is also trivially available outside of college, it's called "email". There's a whole industry in tricking new adults into believing that college is not about getting a piece of paper, it's gross, and it's avoidable. I paid off a year of unnecessary college debt in 1/4 of a year of doing real work I learned how to do in my free time. It's a trap and articles like this where colleges are working as hard they can to make education less useful prove it.
    - sarchertech 6mo ago
      >No wasted time You just said that it was a waste of time. So was it or not? > that option is also trivially available outside of college, it's called “email”. How many experts have you cold emailed over the years and how much of their time have you taken?
      - llbbdd 6mo ago
        It would have been more wasted time had I continued after a single year. I went to my first year of college on the advice of my well-meaning parents who are old and like most old people thought it was still important, and yet they agreed with my decision to leave after the first year on an offer for a real six-figure job because there was nothing to learn that I hadn't or couldn't have learned on my own. At least one of my own professors also openly wondered why I was there at all. To your second question - less than a hundred, but tens. Most people who are worth listening to publish their work and their thoughts. Email is free. Experts love to answer questions about their work, professors hate doing extra work for no extra pay. The incentives here are not confusing. How much time have I taken? Confusing question. These are real people with real passion, and they answer questions with that in mind. Professors are obligated to puke up an answer. I've gotten responses in most cases, in some I haven't. When I don't get answers it's because the targets are smart and busy. If I wanted more engagement with my random questions I'd offer money, and if I had offered money every time I'd still be below par on the money I wasted on college. If I wanted to justify it - I'd say I learned enough to validate that paying real money for another 3-6 years would have been less valuable than burning it for heat.
        sarchertech 6mo ago
        > At least one of my own professors also openly wondered why I was there at all. I think you completely misunderstood this interaction. There are 2 possible explanations. 1. You are so smart/knowledgeable that the professor thinks you are beyond college. 2. You were acting like such an arrogant know-it-all that the professor was being sarcastic. I’ve seen #1, but I’ve seen #2 many times. You sound like you have a huge chip on your shoulder about not having a degree. I had the same issue at one point before I went back and finished (after working as a professional developer for a while), so I recognize it. When I did go back, I asked questions in class, I went to office hours to ask questions, and I did research projects with professors. Some back of the envelope math says it would have costs me about twice what I got out owing if I’d paid for an equal amount of time with whatever experts I could find. My strong suspicion based on the few posts I’ve read is that your attitude is the reason you had such poor interactions with instructors.
  - tim-projects 6mo ago
    That doesn't work in tech based professions. In college I took music technology. It was 2 years of my own learning and explaining how everything worked to my tutor.
    - sarchertech 6mo ago
      If you’re talking about a purely vocational program, you’re not likely to be dealing with world class experts.
  - balamatom 6mo ago
    >only time in your life when you are surrounded by experts who will spend an hour a week answering any questions you can think of. Why is that a resource of "once-in-a-lifetime" scarcity in the first place?
    - sarchertech 6mo ago
      Because It’s really expensive, time consuming, and difficult to gather exports together like that. The closest anyone comes to research university is national laboratory, or something like Bell Labs. But you’re unlikely to have access to those. And you’re unlikely to ever have another time in your life when you can take 4 years to devote almost solely to learning.
      - balamatom 6mo ago
        Yes exactly, why are those things the case?
        sarchertech 6mo ago
        It’s expensive because in a capitalist society experts want to be well paid. As to why you’re unlikely to have another time in your life when you can do this, that’s also because of money. Life tends to get more expensive the older you get.

Education is a nice side effect sometimes but yeah, I don't know how you could reach any other conclusion. If you're motivated to learn for learning's sake, college is an annoying slog that you know you don't need post-millenium. I literally left college early and started making money instead of spending it, because I got tired of demonstrating to my professors that I already knew everything they were teaching and that it'd be a waste of time for me to come to class.

sarchertech 6mo ago
Or maybe you chose to waste your time because you treated college as a way to get a piece paper instead of as the only time in your life when you are surrounded by experts who will spend an hour a week answering any questions you can think of.
- llbbdd 6mo ago
  No time wasted at all, that option is also trivially available outside of college, it's called "email". There's a whole industry in tricking new adults into believing that college is not about getting a piece of paper, it's gross, and it's avoidable. I paid off a year of unnecessary college debt in 1/4 of a year of doing real work I learned how to do in my free time. It's a trap and articles like this where colleges are working as hard they can to make education less useful prove it.
  - sarchertech 6mo ago
    >No wasted time You just said that it was a waste of time. So was it or not? > that option is also trivially available outside of college, it's called “email”. How many experts have you cold emailed over the years and how much of their time have you taken?
    - llbbdd 6mo ago
      It would have been more wasted time had I continued after a single year. I went to my first year of college on the advice of my well-meaning parents who are old and like most old people thought it was still important, and yet they agreed with my decision to leave after the first year on an offer for a real six-figure job because there was nothing to learn that I hadn't or couldn't have learned on my own. At least one of my own professors also openly wondered why I was there at all. To your second question - less than a hundred, but tens. Most people who are worth listening to publish their work and their thoughts. Email is free. Experts love to answer questions about their work, professors hate doing extra work for no extra pay. The incentives here are not confusing. How much time have I taken? Confusing question. These are real people with real passion, and they answer questions with that in mind. Professors are obligated to puke up an answer. I've gotten responses in most cases, in some I haven't. When I don't get answers it's because the targets are smart and busy. If I wanted more engagement with my random questions I'd offer money, and if I had offered money every time I'd still be below par on the money I wasted on college. If I wanted to justify it - I'd say I learned enough to validate that paying real money for another 3-6 years would have been less valuable than burning it for heat.
      - sarchertech 6mo ago
        > At least one of my own professors also openly wondered why I was there at all. I think you completely misunderstood this interaction. There are 2 possible explanations. 1. You are so smart/knowledgeable that the professor thinks you are beyond college. 2. You were acting like such an arrogant know-it-all that the professor was being sarcastic. I’ve seen #1, but I’ve seen #2 many times. You sound like you have a huge chip on your shoulder about not having a degree. I had the same issue at one point before I went back and finished (after working as a professional developer for a while), so I recognize it. When I did go back, I asked questions in class, I went to office hours to ask questions, and I did research projects with professors. Some back of the envelope math says it would have costs me about twice what I got out owing if I’d paid for an equal amount of time with whatever experts I could find. My strong suspicion based on the few posts I’ve read is that your attitude is the reason you had such poor interactions with instructors.
- tim-projects 6mo ago
  That doesn't work in tech based professions. In college I took music technology. It was 2 years of my own learning and explaining how everything worked to my tutor.
  - sarchertech 6mo ago
    If you’re talking about a purely vocational program, you’re not likely to be dealing with world class experts.
- balamatom 6mo ago
  >only time in your life when you are surrounded by experts who will spend an hour a week answering any questions you can think of. Why is that a resource of "once-in-a-lifetime" scarcity in the first place?
  - sarchertech 6mo ago
    Because It’s really expensive, time consuming, and difficult to gather exports together like that. The closest anyone comes to research university is national laboratory, or something like Bell Labs. But you’re unlikely to have access to those. And you’re unlikely to ever have another time in your life when you can take 4 years to devote almost solely to learning.
    - balamatom 6mo ago
      Yes exactly, why are those things the case?
      - sarchertech 6mo ago
        It’s expensive because in a capitalist society experts want to be well paid. As to why you’re unlikely to have another time in your life when you can do this, that’s also because of money. Life tends to get more expensive the older you get.