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the railways are excellent, but it's funny. I was just in Kyoto and saw flyers seemingly at every single temple opposing the Hokuriku Shinkansen extension. appa
by amazingamazing 6mo ago
the railways are excellent, but it's funny. I was just in Kyoto and saw flyers seemingly at every single temple opposing the Hokuriku Shinkansen extension. apparently this type of opposition has always existed (I looked at the history of trains in Japan and originally most Japanese did NOT want it at all because they thought it looked really ugly), like nimbys in USA, but such decisions are apparently federalized according to some Japanese nationals I spoke to, so the nimbys have no power.
USA should do the same (well, the current federal government is volatile to say, the least, but in general I think it'd be improvement).
- dgellow 6mo agoI’m not American, so only have an outsider perspective, but I’m not convinced that’s possible in the US to do the same, because the country has a completely different perspective on individual rights. Land ownership seems to be seen as something sacred that cannot be infringed in any way, meaning a small group of people who own some parts of the land can block any development that would benefit the public at large
- amazingamazing 6mo agoland rights aren't exactly a constitutional right, but the 5th amendment makes it hard to take it, so in practice would probably require a constitutional amendment.
- ghaff 6mo agoThe 5th amendment isn't exactly recent. But a lot of factors make it harder--for better or worse--to exercise eminent domain today than in the past. You could probably never reasonably build the equivalent of the interstate highway system today. (Though even at the time, there were compromises made because of strong community pushback in some cases and there was less developed space than today as well.)
- thekyle 6mo ago[dead]
- kiba 6mo agoThe US is the country that originated Georgism.
- yks 6mo agoYou’d think so, but in fact it’s almost the opposite! You can own your land all you want but your neighbor has a final say on what’s allowed on your land.
- titzer 6mo agoThis is mostly true until it's time to build an interstate.
- ghaff 6mo agoGood luck building a bunch of new interstates today. Opposition was already coming in at the end of the interstate system buildout. Drill down and you'll find various odd connections (or lack thereof) throughout the system that resulted from community opposition.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- orangecat 6mo agoa small group of people who own some parts of the land can block any development Almost all NIMBY opposition to development comes from people who do not own the land in question.
- kjkjadksj 6mo agoEminent domain is designed for this. People are compelled to sell.
- ghaff 6mo agoAnd you'd better be prepared to fight for it through the courts. Might take a decade or more if someone is really opposed to selling.
- kjkjadksj 6mo agoPeople say that but I’m not sure, it seems state of california manages to pull it off pretty well, thinking in terms of recent history it was used a couple years ago for highway expansion in bakersfield for example, using it on 900 homes. Pretty sure they must have used it recently in the owens valley when they widened 395 as well.
- kdheiwns 6mo agoThey still have influence in Japan. The maglev train has been delayed for years because a small portion passes through Shizuoka, and the local government wouldn't approve construction due to it making no stops in the prefecture and potentially affecting water supplies there. This delayed the opening of it from 2027 to 2035 at the earliest. Shizuoka as a whole is unusually screwed by the Shinkansen system. Large cities like Hamamatsu, with 800k people, are passed over by a lot of the Hikari (mid-speed Shinkansen), and the Nozomi (high speed Shinkansen) passes through the prefecture with zero stops whatsoever. However, it stops it cities like Tokuyama, with a whopping population of 100k.
- amazingamazing 6mo agois this because of the federal government capitulating or is it because the small group inherently has influence structurally?
- kdheiwns 6mo agoThe federal government has no influence. Prefectures approve their own construction. Japan's railways are built and operated by corporations, not the government, so the federal government has zero say in the matter.
- amazingamazing 6mo agoah interesting. I wonder why that person mentioned the federal government then. couldn't a single person just refuse to sell their land and block the entire thing then?
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- panick21_ 6mo agoFunny how people always endlessly worry about water supply, its one of those things that is very easy to claim but very hard to prove an in 99.9% of times there really isn't an issue.
- testing22321 6mo agoIt can’t work in the US, because it’s not a society that works together for the collective good, or to raise everyone’s quality of life. It’s a bunch of individuals in a dog eat dog situation who happen to live nearby.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6mo agoI was just thinking about this, this morning. In the US, we have had a pretty wide-open nation, for much of our history. Population density was low, and many folks were forced to be extremely self-sufficient. This has resulted in a fiercely independent national zeitgeist. Asian nations, on the other hand, have been very crowded, for a very long time. This has resulted in a much more interdependent mindset. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. There's really no nation on Earth that is as good at "ganging up" on a problem, as Japan. Korea and China are catching up quick, though. The US is very good at manufacturing footguns. We don't tend to play well with others. It really is hard for exceptional people to make their way, in Japanese society, though. They have a saying "The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down."
- testing22321 6mo ago>In the US, we have had a pretty wide-open nation, for much of our history. Population density was low, and many folks were forced to be extremely self-sufficient. This has resulted in a fiercely independent national zeitgeist. Australia is much less dense and more remote that the US (I drove 1,050 miles in Australia through the desert without seeing a vehicle or person, in the US you can’t get more than 100 miles from McDonald’s) but Australian’s work together and don’t have this “ fiercely independent “ nonsense that keeps everyone at each others throats.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6mo agoI don’t know. Most Aussies I’ve known are quite independent. I really like them; maybe because we share so many traits. Also, the US was where the British sent their convicts, until we had a big prison riot.
- dwroberts 6mo agoObjections to large projects exist everywhere all over the world. The reason the US has such an issue with this is because of state autonomy (and corruption). Most other places in the world don’t allow subregions of the country to do whatever they want and make up laws etc
- greenavocado 6mo agoWe need to stop pretending it isn't corruption and conflict of interest
- briandw 6mo agoSwitzerland is even more regional than the US. Yet they seem to have built an excellent rail system.
- titzer 6mo agoThe US interstate system is incredible extensive, uniform, and well-maintained (relatively speaking). States love federal dollars, and if there were federal dollars for train lines, they'd fall over themselves to get them. That doesn't seem to happen for a lot of reasons. It seems like there are a lot of corruption problems that seem to eat up train projects, but for some reason the interstate system, though replete with plenty of boondoggles, is an unstoppable road-spreading machine.
- Conan_Kudo 6mo agoThe interstate system only succeeded because the federal government took the very rare step of steamrolling all the states and individual landowners. It was done in service of putting people to work and stimulating the economy. But it was not a well-liked project. Today, it is well-regarded, but when it was being done? No way.
- chermi 6mo agoMy impression is it's more to do with being able to sue for everything under the sun and block things almost indefinitely under different forms of review, usually environmental.
- ehnto 6mo agoI am a big infrastructure nerd but I believe they are right, it does change the way idyllic landscapes and towns can look. But I'm not sure it's a valid reason to block such practical projects. It's the same for cities with building height restrictions (or really very many types of restrictions). It will make an old city look a bit less romantic for sure, but also people have to live and work here. Cities aren't for looking at.
- airza 6mo agoJapan isn’t a federal government, so the decision can happen at the national level because prefectural and local governments zoning ability came from the national government. I don’t think the federal government could de facto change this, though in practice they have levers available.
- ahazred8ta 6mo agoThere's a 'build the Japanese train system' board game "1889" -- https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/23540/shikoku-1889 https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/23540/shikoku-1889 -- https://www.amazon.com/Shikoku-1889-Railways-Players-Minute/dp/B0CNDDTYKN https://www.amazon.com/Shikoku-1889-Railways-Players-Minute/...