4 ms·

You're comparing 1987 VGA to 1985 Amiga? Not a realistic comparison. Technology advanced much more rapidly in those days. Similar to how hard drive capacity s

You're comparing 1987 VGA to 1985 Amiga? Not a realistic comparison. Technology advanced much more rapidly in those days. Similar to how hard drive capacity seemed to double every six months for a while, or how there's a new bleeding edge AI model every three months today. Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously.

lysace 7mo ago
Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously. That's the highly special hold-and-modify mode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify). I tried pretty hard to word my comment fairly, remembering the sometimes legendary tenacity of Amiga fans. (Which nowadays includes yours truly.)
- vidarh 7mo ago
  Or using the copper. Plenty of Amiga games played palette tricks despite not using HAM.
  - lysace 7mo ago
    Sort of fair but also very specialized.
    - wk_end 7mo ago
      Not at all! Use of the Copper to punch up visuals was de rigeur on the Amiga - Amiga games are immediately recognizable by their Copper-fueled sky gradients for instance. I actually think that if there's any really good explanation for why you like might find Amiga graphics more pleasing than VGA, the Copper is the thing.
fredoralive 7mo ago
Only using the party trick HAM mode though. 32 (plus 32 for the half-bright bit plane) is the mode that most software uses. Of course in 1987 a Macintosh II with a fully expanded "Toby" framebuffer could not only do 256 colours, it could do it in 640x480 mode where as a PS/2's VGA could only do 16 colours at that resolution. And an Amiga could only do flickervision at that res. Of course with technology improving all the time, not having a updated chipset circa 1987 that at least had a progressive scan 640x480(ish) is one of those things that really killed the chances of Amiga as a serious computer. They only got that circa 1990, and "Super VGA" was already just about becoming a thing in the PC world (and Microsoft had kinda got round to making a version of Windows that didn't suck by then). I'm not sure if the mythical Ranger had a progressive mode, but it's it does show how Commodore inability to keep the custom chips updated in a timely mannner slowly sunk the system...
- Narishma 7mo ago
  > Of course in 1987 a Macintosh II with a fully expanded "Toby" framebuffer could not only do 256 colours, it could do it in 640x480 mode where as a PS/2's VGA could only do 16 colours at that resolution. If cost is no issue, the PS/2 also had the 8514/A card that could do 256 colours at 1024x768. And there was also the PGC from 1984 that could do 256 colours at 640x480.
- reaperducer 7mo ago
  Hardly a party trick. Programs that used HAM weren't uncommon. It was an advertised feature, and there were even painting programs. I guess you weren't there.
  - lysace 7mo ago
    HAM was useful for showing static graphics.
- LocalH 6mo ago
  Don't forget "dynamic hires" and "sliced HAM", two software modes that were really only useful for static images. Dynamic hires ran at 640x400x16 colors, but changed the palette on every single scanline, which could allow display of all 4096 colors in hires). Sliced HAM did the same thing, but in 320x400 HAM (the base palette was 16 colors and could be used directly without fringing, so changing those 16 colors every line would reduce fringing while still allowing more than 16 colors to appear on a scanline). Nothing stopped people from using this dynamic palette technique with 32-color lores or 64-color EHB as well. But it was most commonly used in the two forms I mentioned. By the time HAM8 came around in the AGA chipset, this wasn't really needed, as HAM8 fringing was much less noticeable, having a base palette of 64 colors. There's no reason you couldn't do sliced HAM8 however, although I'm not sure if you could change all 64 base colors for each scanline.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

lysace 7mo ago

Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously. That's the highly special hold-and-modify mode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify). I tried pretty hard to word my comment fairly, remembering the sometimes legendary tenacity of Amiga fans. (Which nowadays includes yours truly.)

vidarh 7mo ago
Or using the copper. Plenty of Amiga games played palette tricks despite not using HAM.
- lysace 7mo ago
  Sort of fair but also very specialized.
  - wk_end 7mo ago
    Not at all! Use of the Copper to punch up visuals was de rigeur on the Amiga - Amiga games are immediately recognizable by their Copper-fueled sky gradients for instance. I actually think that if there's any really good explanation for why you like might find Amiga graphics more pleasing than VGA, the Copper is the thing.

fredoralive 7mo ago

Only using the party trick HAM mode though. 32 (plus 32 for the half-bright bit plane) is the mode that most software uses. Of course in 1987 a Macintosh II with a fully expanded "Toby" framebuffer could not only do 256 colours, it could do it in 640x480 mode where as a PS/2's VGA could only do 16 colours at that resolution. And an Amiga could only do flickervision at that res. Of course with technology improving all the time, not having a updated chipset circa 1987 that at least had a progressive scan 640x480(ish) is one of those things that really killed the chances of Amiga as a serious computer. They only got that circa 1990, and "Super VGA" was already just about becoming a thing in the PC world (and Microsoft had kinda got round to making a version of Windows that didn't suck by then). I'm not sure if the mythical Ranger had a progressive mode, but it's it does show how Commodore inability to keep the custom chips updated in a timely mannner slowly sunk the system...

Narishma 7mo ago
> Of course in 1987 a Macintosh II with a fully expanded "Toby" framebuffer could not only do 256 colours, it could do it in 640x480 mode where as a PS/2's VGA could only do 16 colours at that resolution. If cost is no issue, the PS/2 also had the 8514/A card that could do 256 colours at 1024x768. And there was also the PGC from 1984 that could do 256 colours at 640x480.
reaperducer 7mo ago
Hardly a party trick. Programs that used HAM weren't uncommon. It was an advertised feature, and there were even painting programs. I guess you weren't there.
- lysace 7mo ago
  HAM was useful for showing static graphics.
LocalH 6mo ago
Don't forget "dynamic hires" and "sliced HAM", two software modes that were really only useful for static images. Dynamic hires ran at 640x400x16 colors, but changed the palette on every single scanline, which could allow display of all 4096 colors in hires). Sliced HAM did the same thing, but in 320x400 HAM (the base palette was 16 colors and could be used directly without fringing, so changing those 16 colors every line would reduce fringing while still allowing more than 16 colors to appear on a scanline). Nothing stopped people from using this dynamic palette technique with 32-color lores or 64-color EHB as well. But it was most commonly used in the two forms I mentioned. By the time HAM8 came around in the AGA chipset, this wasn't really needed, as HAM8 fringing was much less noticeable, having a base palette of 64 colors. There's no reason you couldn't do sliced HAM8 however, although I'm not sure if you could change all 64 base colors for each scanline.

deleted 7mo ago

[deleted]