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I missed out on the Amiga (introduced in 1985) at the time, being an early PC adopter. Went from CGA (1981) directly to VGA (1987). In terms of colors the most

by lysace 6mo ago

I missed out on the Amiga (introduced in 1985) at the time, being an early PC adopter. Went from CGA (1981) directly to VGA (1987). In terms of colors the most popular VGA modes (320x200 or 320x240, 256 color palette, 18 bit color depth) are superior to the most popular Amiga graphics modes (320×200 or 320x256, 32 color palette, 12 bit color depth). But somehow Amiga graphics is still often nicer.

gxd 6mo ago
It's because of the artists. The Amiga was a much more affordable art-making machine, so many artists made graphics ON the Amiga FOR the Amiga. There were even some good-looking VGA games that under utilized the PC's capabilities because they were essentially converted Amiga games. Now for the shameless plug... My game's protagonist is an Amiga fan and the Amiga has a little cameo in it: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3040110/Outsider/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/3040110/Outsider/
ekianjo 6mo ago
Amiga happened way before VGA was mainstream.
- lysace 6mo ago
  Amigas reached hobbyists in large numbers way earlier, yeah.
- rjrjrjrj 6mo ago
  Amiga 1000 was released in mid-1985, although I think few units were shipped before 1986. Amiga 500 was 1987 - same year as VGA, its little brother MCGA, and the Mac II. Not sure when VGA would have been considered mainstream... 1989 maybe? Mac LC was 1990, so probably before that. VGA and Mac color were better for most practical things. Square pixels and far fewer resolution/flicker/color tradeoffs.
  - mrandish 6mo ago
    > Amiga 1000 was released in mid-1985, although I think few units were shipped before 1986. It was announced on July 26th, 1985 at Lincoln Center with Andy Warhol painting Blondie (Debby Harry) live on-stage (a demo which was re-created at the Computer History Museum this past Summer as part of the Amiga 040th celebration). But you're right it wasn't commonly available until the late Fall. I managed to get mine at the end of November.
reaperducer 6mo ago
You're comparing 1987 VGA to 1985 Amiga? Not a realistic comparison. Technology advanced much more rapidly in those days. Similar to how hard drive capacity seemed to double every six months for a while, or how there's a new bleeding edge AI model every three months today. Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously.
- lysace 6mo ago
  Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously. That's the highly special hold-and-modify mode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify). I tried pretty hard to word my comment fairly, remembering the sometimes legendary tenacity of Amiga fans. (Which nowadays includes yours truly.)
  - vidarh 6mo ago
    Or using the copper. Plenty of Amiga games played palette tricks despite not using HAM.
    - lysace 6mo ago
      Sort of fair but also very specialized.
      - wk_end 6mo ago
        Not at all! Use of the Copper to punch up visuals was de rigeur on the Amiga - Amiga games are immediately recognizable by their Copper-fueled sky gradients for instance. I actually think that if there's any really good explanation for why you like might find Amiga graphics more pleasing than VGA, the Copper is the thing.
- fredoralive 6mo ago
  Only using the party trick HAM mode though. 32 (plus 32 for the half-bright bit plane) is the mode that most software uses. Of course in 1987 a Macintosh II with a fully expanded "Toby" framebuffer could not only do 256 colours, it could do it in 640x480 mode where as a PS/2's VGA could only do 16 colours at that resolution. And an Amiga could only do flickervision at that res. Of course with technology improving all the time, not having a updated chipset circa 1987 that at least had a progressive scan 640x480(ish) is one of those things that really killed the chances of Amiga as a serious computer. They only got that circa 1990, and "Super VGA" was already just about becoming a thing in the PC world (and Microsoft had kinda got round to making a version of Windows that didn't suck by then). I'm not sure if the mythical Ranger had a progressive mode, but it's it does show how Commodore inability to keep the custom chips updated in a timely mannner slowly sunk the system...
ZFH 6mo ago
15khz 320x200 with proper CRT scanlines (like in arcade games and home consoles and computers on a standard TV) is immensely more pleasing to the eye than the same resolution displayed on a PC monitor.
- drzaiusx11 6mo ago
  The glow of a crt warms my heart. There's a beauty to phosphor based images that nothing else replicates. I tried playing my old games and software on modern TVs and monitors but somethig was "missing"; it didn't feel right. Sure enough, the halo and color bleeds were leveraged by the great designers of the day. The sprites, fonts characters _require_ the "glow" to experience them as they were designed. It goes beyond simple nostalgia. I finally broke down and bought a gorgeous Zenith Space Command TV, hacked it for various modern input sources (composite, s video, VGA and even HDMI.) It just brings the joy back that was missing.
sgt 6mo ago
You had VGA in 1987?! That was very rare. You must have been an early adopter. Amiga users in '92 and '93 had great color and many PC users were still on EGA.
- lysace 6mo ago
  Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. It was introduced in 1987.
- reaperducer 6mo ago
  You had VGA in 1987?! That was very rare. You must have been an early adopter. Amiga users in '92 and '93 had great color and many PC users were still on EGA. I got my first VGA card in 1994. You're right, VGA wasn't common in 1987. And based on the parent's comment history, he wasn't even alive in 1987; which is why he presents himself as an expert.
  - lysace 6mo ago
    And based on the parent's comment history, he wasn't even alive in 1987 Damn, I wish I was that young!
richardw 6mo ago
The cost between an A500 and a VGA-enabled PC in 1987 ($699 vs $3500-ish?) would have put them in such different categories and customer segments that they would rarely interact. I remember seeing a PC one of the rich kids brought to boarding school in 1990 and realising it was just crisper than my A500. The PC’s in the school lab were all green and orange screens with one colour CGA, so this was quite a surprise. Still took me some time to accept reality :)

by lysace 6mo ago

gxd 6mo ago

It's because of the artists. The Amiga was a much more affordable art-making machine, so many artists made graphics ON the Amiga FOR the Amiga. There were even some good-looking VGA games that under utilized the PC's capabilities because they were essentially converted Amiga games. Now for the shameless plug... My game's protagonist is an Amiga fan and the Amiga has a little cameo in it: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3040110/Outsider/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/3040110/Outsider/

ekianjo 6mo ago

Amiga happened way before VGA was mainstream.

lysace 6mo ago
Amigas reached hobbyists in large numbers way earlier, yeah.
rjrjrjrj 6mo ago
Amiga 1000 was released in mid-1985, although I think few units were shipped before 1986. Amiga 500 was 1987 - same year as VGA, its little brother MCGA, and the Mac II. Not sure when VGA would have been considered mainstream... 1989 maybe? Mac LC was 1990, so probably before that. VGA and Mac color were better for most practical things. Square pixels and far fewer resolution/flicker/color tradeoffs.
- mrandish 6mo ago
  > Amiga 1000 was released in mid-1985, although I think few units were shipped before 1986. It was announced on July 26th, 1985 at Lincoln Center with Andy Warhol painting Blondie (Debby Harry) live on-stage (a demo which was re-created at the Computer History Museum this past Summer as part of the Amiga 040th celebration). But you're right it wasn't commonly available until the late Fall. I managed to get mine at the end of November.

reaperducer 6mo ago

You're comparing 1987 VGA to 1985 Amiga? Not a realistic comparison. Technology advanced much more rapidly in those days. Similar to how hard drive capacity seemed to double every six months for a while, or how there's a new bleeding edge AI model every three months today. Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously.

lysace 6mo ago
Also, VGA had 256 colors. The Amiga had 4,096 simultaneously. That's the highly special hold-and-modify mode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hold-And-Modify). I tried pretty hard to word my comment fairly, remembering the sometimes legendary tenacity of Amiga fans. (Which nowadays includes yours truly.)
- vidarh 6mo ago
  Or using the copper. Plenty of Amiga games played palette tricks despite not using HAM.
  - lysace 6mo ago
    Sort of fair but also very specialized.
    - wk_end 6mo ago
      Not at all! Use of the Copper to punch up visuals was de rigeur on the Amiga - Amiga games are immediately recognizable by their Copper-fueled sky gradients for instance. I actually think that if there's any really good explanation for why you like might find Amiga graphics more pleasing than VGA, the Copper is the thing.
fredoralive 6mo ago
Only using the party trick HAM mode though. 32 (plus 32 for the half-bright bit plane) is the mode that most software uses. Of course in 1987 a Macintosh II with a fully expanded "Toby" framebuffer could not only do 256 colours, it could do it in 640x480 mode where as a PS/2's VGA could only do 16 colours at that resolution. And an Amiga could only do flickervision at that res. Of course with technology improving all the time, not having a updated chipset circa 1987 that at least had a progressive scan 640x480(ish) is one of those things that really killed the chances of Amiga as a serious computer. They only got that circa 1990, and "Super VGA" was already just about becoming a thing in the PC world (and Microsoft had kinda got round to making a version of Windows that didn't suck by then). I'm not sure if the mythical Ranger had a progressive mode, but it's it does show how Commodore inability to keep the custom chips updated in a timely mannner slowly sunk the system...

ZFH 6mo ago

15khz 320x200 with proper CRT scanlines (like in arcade games and home consoles and computers on a standard TV) is immensely more pleasing to the eye than the same resolution displayed on a PC monitor.

drzaiusx11 6mo ago
The glow of a crt warms my heart. There's a beauty to phosphor based images that nothing else replicates. I tried playing my old games and software on modern TVs and monitors but somethig was "missing"; it didn't feel right. Sure enough, the halo and color bleeds were leveraged by the great designers of the day. The sprites, fonts characters _require_ the "glow" to experience them as they were designed. It goes beyond simple nostalgia. I finally broke down and bought a gorgeous Zenith Space Command TV, hacked it for various modern input sources (composite, s video, VGA and even HDMI.) It just brings the joy back that was missing.

sgt 6mo ago

You had VGA in 1987?! That was very rare. You must have been an early adopter. Amiga users in '92 and '93 had great color and many PC users were still on EGA.

lysace 6mo ago
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. It was introduced in 1987.
reaperducer 6mo ago
You had VGA in 1987?! That was very rare. You must have been an early adopter. Amiga users in '92 and '93 had great color and many PC users were still on EGA. I got my first VGA card in 1994. You're right, VGA wasn't common in 1987. And based on the parent's comment history, he wasn't even alive in 1987; which is why he presents himself as an expert.
- lysace 6mo ago
  And based on the parent's comment history, he wasn't even alive in 1987 Damn, I wish I was that young!

richardw 6mo ago

The cost between an A500 and a VGA-enabled PC in 1987 ($699 vs $3500-ish?) would have put them in such different categories and customer segments that they would rarely interact. I remember seeing a PC one of the rich kids brought to boarding school in 1990 and realising it was just crisper than my A500. The PC’s in the school lab were all green and orange screens with one colour CGA, so this was quite a surprise. Still took me some time to accept reality :)